Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

@LostittoBostik - which profession is that? And how does it compare to other EU countries which make less of a fuss about private schools like France, Germany etc.? Do you think the lawyers and judges in other countries are that different? Or perhaps it’s more about family background and expectations rather than what school you go to and how it was funded?

If you put off a ton of higher rate taxpayers which is exactly what this policy does, we will all pay more tax, not less. This policy literally incentivises people to work less and use state education instead, or to leave the country and go elsewhere. None of it makes anyone any richer or more productive. There is no subsidy, that is an outright lie and the potential costs of this ideological and economically illiterate policy are likely into the billions and billions. Damage to Brand U.K. Education, damage to attracting and retaining the most qualified people with kids. It’s not like other countries here where you move and are given a guaranteed state school place immediately- it’s really hard work and requires a lot of planning accessing the best state schools! Massive barrier to access.

Private schools do have their role and provide extra choice for some people. Putting a penalty on their use is bonkers. Another form of self harm. Where I live, for example, there aren’t even that many posh people in private schools anyway. It’s mainly Asian parents now with 1 child households investing all they have in that one child.

Having spent years saying that austerity was a choice, Labour is now realising it is, and always was, a necessity.

Under the last government, the top 10% of earners paid 60.2% of all income tax receipts, and the top 1% paid 28% of all income tax receipts. In contrast, the bottom 50% of earners paid less than 10% of income tax receipts. The high earners paid more tax and the low earners less tax than under the previous Labour government. How much more redistributive do you want it to be?

By the way, policies such as this will almost certainly reduce the redistributive effect of taxes. We heard a lot about fairness when Gordon Brown put the top rate of tax up to 50%, but the result was that high earners paid less tax and therefore low earners had to pay more. I don't think that is the kind of "fairness" supporters of the policy intended.

‘It really is the independent school parents who are being asked to subsidise state schools and not the other way round.’

Oh this shite again. Ok, poor put upon private parents… here’s your solution - use the state schools you already ‘subsidise’ .

No.

But we do expect you to realise that we're subsidising you.

And not to do something stupid which will make everyone's tax go up by stopping some private parents from continuing to subsidise you.

One is, the other Hants.

“Oh this shite again. Ok, poor put upon private parents… here’s your solution - use the state schools you already ‘subsidise’ .”

The rich will not do that, they will simply run off to Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore etc
There is a tipping point and we are there now. Go luck at what happened in Norway. A lot of the very talented left in just a few years due to misguided blinkered totally dumb socialist driven tax policies - that the country, in their case, can at least slightly afford, but we cannot, absolutely not!

Er, as I said in my post we are using state schools but thanks for the suggestion! 🤣

But it’s blindingly obvious to me which was the subsidy is going here.

I can see that superficially there are some ideological and economic arguments for adding VAT to school fees, albeit I’ve not heard any that actually stand up to proper scrutiny.

But to suggest that state school parents have been subsidising the education of independent school children is frankly embarrassing.

Is that you, Bridget…?

Once the figure reached 10K leaving, then it started to become an overall cost to the state sector:

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/13000-pupils-leaving-private-schools-vat-fees-3307218

Oh this shite again. Ok, poor put upon private parents… here’s your solution - use the state schools you already ‘subsidise’ .

Guess what, I did for both my DCs and I am still very against the VAT policy. This attitude of making it “them against us” is one reason why I oppose it. Our government’s aim should be to improve education for ALL children and the economics of this policy doesn’t deliver that. It was ideologically driven and all it has done is increased division and upset the education for those children who need to move schools. It won’t magic up extra teachers, provide breakfast clubs or sort out the issues of why teachers are leaving the state sector.

Well we are starting to write the letter withdrawing our DC from the private school which has helped them recognise their SEND and work with them to get to GCSEs.
We'll manage to fund them through this year's GCSEs but can't borrow any more to fund A'levels. Such a shame as from an organisational perspective, with appropriate support, they'd do better and eventually end up paying more tax. Now there is an increased liklihood they'll cost the state.

@LongDarkTeatime I'm really sorry, that's awful for you and your DC. I do hope they will find their new school works out for them. 💐

Thank you @PemberleynotWemberley
Really hoping @Jaimenotjamie doesn’t work in a caring profession or with kids seeing as they laugh at a child’s distress

Very sorry to hear that for you and your family LongDarkTeatime

Also MN says misusing the new emojis is making a personal attack. So I have reported that. Mumsnet is meant to be for parents to support each other.

God, what's happening to us as a society, when people use the cover of anonymity to mock a family and a child's distress?
Not your finest hour, @Jaimenotjamie; badly done.

Thank you @PemberleynotWemberley and @EHCPerhaps
Anyone can make a mistake so checked @Jaimenotjamie previous posts before posting a screenshot. Hopefully it was a slip, despite their previously voiced opinions.

A state 6th form will likely be a much better place for uni transition anyway.
Many MANY state parents choose a different 6th form for that very reason so your child will hardly be unusual.

@LongDarkTeatime - sorry to hear about this. Does your DC have any hobbies/extracurricular passions? I would focus on making sure they can continue those in or out of school, and line up tutors for their subjects to assist and possibly some counselling.
A child in my wider family came back from abroad and found it difficult settling into state school in sixth form because the school they joined had hardly any clubs in their passion and they were so used to doing loads of extracurricular clubs and had formed very strong friendships via that previously. I think it is often that which is so different in some state schools (not all, plenty do have loads of societies/clubs).

Sorry to hear that @longdarkteatime .

In addition to @Araminta1003 's good advice, do find out how he should apply for the A level classes he's interested in at his new school. Classes can fill up, so make sure he doesn't miss a deadline or not get there early enough on registration day. I hope you've found a school which offers the A level combination he wants to do. Existing school parents probably already know all the details, so you need to make sure you find out in time, since you don't have the insider info.

I'm sure that his existing school have taught him lots of strategies to help with any organisation difficulties he has from SEN. It may even (as a pp suggested) help him that the support is withdrawn a couple of years earlier than would have been, whilst you're still there to help him really make those strategies his own. I think that SpLD are often less of a hurdle at A level - since students do a smaller number of subjects, which are aligned to their strengths.

Don't worry that he won't do so well in his A levels and that will affect his future. State A levels will probably help with admissions! And regardless of which Uni he goes to, his strengths - gained over his whole life time - are what will shape his future. You've already given him a huge boost with a great education in his formative school years: that's part of him now.

"State A-Levels" generally won't help with university admissions. Universities look at the context in which GCSE grades were achieved when considering applicants. They are aware of some private school parents trying to game the system by moving DC to state for sixth form and counteract that by looking at GCSEs. With regard to university offers, DC only qualify for a contextual offer on school attended basis if they go to a poor performing comp for A-Levels. With regard to the specifics of Oxbridge and state targets, there is currently a move away from that.

Universities need to account for the whole context. If thousands of children with SEND are being moved out of private schools due to Government interference, then I assume they will take the impact on the mental health of those DCs into context. It is context.

If I'm correct from your other posts, you don't believe in context unless it is a case of extremely disadvantaged DC living in extreme poverty and hardship. Do you believe this kind of displacement is on the same level as that?

I think 6th forms are going to need a lot of extra SEN help.

It's the natural point at which to move children if fees have become unaffordable, and the vast majority will not have an EHCP... plus with current wait times, they are unlikely to get an EHCP through all the hoops between start and end of A levels.

So state schools with 6th forms are going to need bigger budgets and more provision to manage the SEN cohorts - which may well be larger percentage wise than they are used to dealing with if private schools have managed to get children in a position where A levels are an option through small classes and extra support.

@Kittiwakeup - yes I think for some children it is on that level and universities should take account of it. It is a completely different situation when it is a choice vs thousands of children being forced out of schools they were happy and thriving in, especially if they already have challenges. So I expect universities will take this into account. It is completely unprecedented. It would be negligent not to take it into account.

So if I am correct in understanding what you are saying is that a DC with SEN moving from private to a good state school with supportive parents is more severely disadvantaged than a SEN DC who has always been in state education ,is living below the poverty line and going to a very low performing state comp in a very deprived area. Are you really saying that?

I think it was obvious all along that Sixth Form is the crunch point as it is a natural transition point anyway, it is where the birth rate is still high and it also tends to be expensive and also traditionally, it is were a larger percentage of children were privately educated, historically. We must just hope that someone in charge is planning for this very obvious consequence. Sixth Forms have experienced even more underfunding than other forms of state education.

Just an example
https://www.fenews.co.uk/fe-voices/new-report-finds-significant-shortfall-in-funding-for-sixth-form-students/#:~:text=New%20report%20finds%20significant%20shortfall%20in%20funding%20for%20sixth%20form%20students,-FE%20News%20Editor&text=A%20new%20report%20has%20found,education%20and%20support%20they%20need.