Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

@Kittiwakeup - no I was not saying that. I am simply stating that this is a completely unprecedented situation and that universities also need to adjust to it!

Also worth considering the knock on effects on other SEN and non-SEN students in the same classes if there isn't sufficient funding in place.

Obviously the government will have foreseen this and I'm sure have made adequate provision.

Moving to state for 6th form is certainly not going to hurt the DC's chances. Cambridge have said they're going to scrap their state school quota, but we don't know what it will be replaced with.

Either way, as I said @LongDarkTeatime , I'm sure he'll get on well using all the skills he's learned. Hope all goes well, and he's happy there.

Okay so my DD's friend has SEN and her family lost the family business and she had to leave her private school and go to a state comp because they couldn't afford it any longer. She has substantial access arrangements in place to compensate for her SEN in all examinations. Are you saying that she should have got a contextual offer because she had to change school due to financial circumstances changing?

Well Bridget Phillipson certainly appears to be a minister with an ideology and a plan so we just have to hope that the Treasury is fully on board with her clear plans and will fund it all completely and adequately so we can enter this golden age of state education immediately, for all, and equal quality for all and fully supportive mainstream SEND hubs and AI learning for those who need it. It has to be in place by September 2025 so let’s hope they are very busy planning and have a deal with the Treasury to make it all happen!

You know they won't take it into account. And the 6th forms won't get extra funding. These policies do have victims.

But I'm sure that with a good foundation and family support, @longdarkteatime will help her DS to thrive.

Is that your answer to my question?

So what about the children with SEN who are already in the state school who will now be in a situation of more thinly spread SEN resources. Should they get contextual considerations too?

@Kittiwakeup - I am saying that yes, for those who suffer mentally due to this policy, there should be some context. Plenty will be fine and supported through the transition. Others may not be and I would expect those who suffer mentally as a result for that to be taken into account. Good to hear your friends DD seems fine. I am sure other parents in similar situation will be happy to hear this.

If there are thousands though at once and the state schools cannot get the funding and support in place immediately, then it is unlikely that the transition for this many children will seem seamless. The Government do have to plan and have some emergency funding in place, should this occur. Or else - thousands and thousands more youngsters out of work and not in education at a key time in their lives? What is the point of planning benefit austerity against worklessness in the young if you introduce policies like this that may well lead to just that?

I am actually blown away that having previously said you don't believe in context unless there are extraordinarily extreme cases of poverty and hardship that you are now saying this. I recall you said that supportive parents and books at home make all the difference and the school you attend doesn't matter that much. Wow.

They're victims too. I've always said that there will be as many state school children harmed by this policy as private school children. Probably more.

It's lose-lose for everyone. Such a stupid policy.

As for whether any of these kids should get contextual offers, it's all a bit 'hierarchy of disadvantage', which I'm not keen on. Exactly how much harm is caused to each child from each adverse condition is difficult to quantify.... and I'm not sure there's much to gain in trying.

I'm happy to go back to everyone being judged on their results, if you prefer that. Exactly which Uni you go to doesn't really matter that much anyway. As I said above, your future is shaped by your strengths, which you build throughout your life: from the moment you're born to the moment you die. A good Uni does feed into that, but it's one tiny part.

No @Kittiwakeup - I was referring to children without SEND from stable backgrounds.

Here I am referring very specifically to children with SEND, which includes emotional and mental health issues, who are being forcibly displaced. It is a completely different situation. I am sure most parents will do all they can to speak about the move positively.
However, this policy is impacting some children who have previous trauma from state schooling who are having to go back into that environment. It may well be that it will be very difficult for them and some will suffer adverse mental health consequences. Not all children can deal with transition well, especially not those with SEND. It is also exactly why many parents keep their DCs with SEND in their state schools and do not necessarily move them at Sixth Form. Especially if they were happy with the SEND department and the support they were getting and DCs have made friends.

it's all a bit 'hierarchy of disadvantage', which I'm not keen on. Of course you are not because your own DC are not disadvantaged. You would most likely have a different view if they were.

I'm happy to go back to everyone being judged on their results, if you prefer that. Of course you are because your own DC's relative significant advantage would be taken out of the equation.

Exactly which uni you go to can matter greatly. Look at the destinations of leavers from the same courses in different universities and it can make a huge difference now. I'm guessing you haven't got anywhere near the stage of choosing universities. I have very recent experience and things have changed a lot since my time.

Thank you for all the good wishes for my DC's move (using gender neutral terms at their request). They are AuDHD but with significant social anxiety after being bullied out of our local state High School. They have a choice of 2 sixth forms. One is a small friendly 6th form where they'd be happy but can't do favourite subjects and we may need to move as a pig to get to. The other is huge and very academic but they can do their chosen subjects.

It is interesting to hear school moves discussed from a neurotypical standpoint. From an autistic standpoint with significant social anxiety involved, it may work or it may end up catastrophic. We'll do our best to support them.

As a lifelong Labour supporter (and occasional activist) I still can't get over the cruelty of the speed with which this policy was imposed. The vaping industry got 2 years to adapt!! They care more for vapes than our kids.
Now the money from schools' VAT isn't ring-fenced do you think it'll be used to fund the recently announced prolonged non-dom tax breaks?

I wish your DC well and hope they settle well into their new sixth form. My comments on context are general and nothing to do with your specific case.

‘State A-Levels" generally won't help with university admissions. Universities look at the context in which GCSE grades were achieved when considering applicants.’

well yes, obviously. They’re used to rich parents trying to push their way in with any means at their disposable.
BUT going to a state 6th or a different 6th form to the school you’ve been in for years can be a really enriching experience and good prep for what comes next.

Do you really think NT children from deprived circumstances and attending very low performing schools are in typically stable backgrounds? Do you believe that the financial uncertainty and harshness of the living conditions of some is conducive to study and doesn't lead to trauma and mental health issues? I volunteer helping super bright children from these backgrounds with high ranking university applications. I see a lot of difficult things to see. What you are describing is unpleasant and I feel sorry for any DC if they don't want to change school and they have to. However, it is very different and I can't believe that you think that one deserves contextual considerations and the other doesn't.

Changing at sixth form stage can be enriching and it can be disruptive and stressful, particularly for ND DC. It very much depends on the individual circumstances. Individual parents are in the better position to judge whether it is a good thing or a bad thing for their own DC.

@Kittiwakeup - you have misinterpreted what I said. I also volunteer with children from properly deprived backgrounds, by the way!

Middle class kids with SEND being forcibly removed by a deliberate Government policy who then suffer as a result, should be given a voice to contextualise their situation too. Mental health and SEND does not just apply to children from deprived backgrounds. It can also apply to children from more affluent backgrounds, just like cancer can strike them, as well, during their exam years. It is pretty much the same concept.

"properly deprived backgrounds" says enough for me to want to leave the discussion here. There's just no point.

You really think that 90 percent of parents are "choosing" not to pay for indie sixth form? Making a positive choice from a position where they could easily afford it, to choose state education?

Come off it. Of course there is a cohort. But the cohort for whom independent was never an option - even if they have SEND - is much bigger.

You can't give contextual offers for ex indie children forced into ordinary state school like everyone else, unless it's a state school that already qualifies for contextual offers.

That's like saying, in the past I have always travelled first class and now I have to travel standard class, so I need money off my holiday for the mental pain. These other people in standard class don't need that money off because they never chose to travel first class so they don't understand the pain I feel.

Yes @Kittiwakeup - Tower Hamlets, FSM children in state schools locally which are underperforming compared to other state schools, all of whom have other additional contributing factors of deprivation like single parents, young carers, multiple children etc, parental drug addiction issues. Properly deprived. Are you saying these kids do not count?

No @GoldVermillion - we are talking about children with SEND who were primarily sent to private schools BECAUSE OF THEIR SEND who the current Government has decided really do not matter. Because their parents could just about scrape together the school fees to support their SEND. It is a very distinct group of kids, many of whom have social and emotional challenges as well.

Or are you another one of those types who believes autism and ADHD are syndromes invented by middle class parents to get their kids more attention at school? It really is starting to sound like it!

@Letlooseonthedanse I take your comment "They’re used to rich parents trying to push their way in with any means at their disposable." is based on objective evidence? If you work in academia please let everyone know which department is so biased.
Having worked in academia (no longer) if any of my team/dept had spoken like this , in such an objectifying and simplistic way, about parents who were rich, average or poor, they would have been having to retrain, at best.

Where did you get that from? Lol. I have two autistic children, one of whom limped through high school, got an EHCP, and never managed uni. I also work in SEND.

If a child's needs can really only be met via small class sizes and an independent school offer then those parents should apply for an EHCP to state as much.

Oftentimes moving a child with SEND out of mainstream just masks the problem for a while. It leaves children without the legal send protection they need or, potentially , their needs being correctly identified. Then they move back into the state at sixth form or uni and are plunged into instant crisis because they would and should have had a support package years earlier had they remained in m/s state.

I fully understand why parents might decide that an independent secondary school feels like a safer option for their child. That is still a choice. There are plenty of children who are autistic or ADHD in mainstream whose parents didn't have the financial option to make that choice.

I don't agree that children whose send is solved by going to a smaller school, bright enough to get decent A levels at that school and who are independent enough to then head off to uni are such a distinct and vulnerable group and they certainly aren't the majority of children in independent schools.