Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

@Ubertomusic I have done no harm to any children. I have always provided caring, supportive and interesting learning opportunities to all children I have taught in any setting. Personal attacks is ‘not a good look’ as people like to say on this thread.

@Ubertomusic you shouldn't have been on the receiving end of that comment- particularly when you were being conciliatory. I'm sorry that happened- not a good look, as you said.

You are right that these decisions on schooling involve cost-benefit choices, and where children are not yet in the system it does relatively less harm to introduce changes that lead to different choices from the outset. What feels so different is where we have children already in schools that have become difficult or impossible to sustain- then it feels less like a dispassionate cost-benefit weigh-up and more like being caught in an awful trap. For me (can't speak for others) it feels like there's a target on our backs and the hurt it's causing me/my DC is some kind of social retribution. This is why emotions tend to run high on these VAT threads.

it feels like there's a target on our backs and the hurt it's causing me/my DC is some kind of social retribution.

agreed

And this is why implementation was key. It should have been implemented gradually, for new joiners, at transition points only and certainly not half way through a school year, and certainly not for children with SEND including mental health struggles. It’s absolutely shocking a Labour Government did this to some children with disabilities.

It does sometimes seem like the only circumstance in which parents can legitimately feel aggrieved is where they have SEND children (Just to be clear I don't minimise the agonies of struggling to afford what amounts to a lifeline for those families).
We took a decision to keep our DC in the boarding school they had attended during my DH's military service, for continuity through GCSE and A Level. We are doing this from savings on top of his retirement lump sum, and the DC have both scholarships and bursaries. It's an expensive school but all very manageable at the time and certainly more affordable than moving near a good state school- we are in a rural area that's poorly served). 20% VAT for two DC amounts to an extra £40k per year- because as well as passing on the tax, our school is cutting bursaries too. There are parents who can absorb this without much difficulty, but those relying on bursaries are by definition not amongst them.
DH and I spent decades in public service roles but feel treated like enemies of the people.

It does sometimes seem like the only circumstance in which parents can legitimately feel aggrieved is where they have SEND children

There’s not much support for us either, to be fair. I do feel for you

@PemberleynotWemberley that's awful!! I feel angry and sorry for everyone that's affected by this shunted in policy.

It must be an astonishingly expensive school - £40k for two children who still have some sort of bursary!

It's a full boarding school, @Heathbear ; they are expensive but it's in line with others. So 20% VAT is £10k plus £10k loss of bursary per child gets you to £40k pa additional cost.

£50k per annum x 2 that you are able to find even if through savings.

You're sure you couldn't have moved...

Not sure I'm required to account to you for all my decisions, @Heathbear , I'm not asking you to sub me. Just making the point that after long public service careers that didn't enrich us we are being placed in a pretty invidious position which is going to be cripplingly expensive and disruptive whatever path we take, despite trying to be both good citizens and good parents.

@PemberleynotWemberley - I totally understand that you do not want to move your children at this late stage. But if you really cannot afford it there are some state grammar boarding schools and state comprehensive schools which offer boarding. They do not come cheap either (almost 20k now for Sixth Form), but could be an option looking into, if you do not have access to good local schools and cannot move.

That is very thoughtful and kind, @Araminta1003 . But we will manage it and take the financial pain, rather than disrupt them for their final couple of years of school. I am very sore about it but also know that there are many others for whom it is not merely crippling, but catastrophic.

And that's the rub isn't it? State boarding schools which can cost more than an independent day school are VAT exempt. This shows how much this policy is based upon the hatred of 1 sector. I

There are a couple of state boarding/6th forms schools near me that friends have used - to get the perks of boarding without the stigma (and retain the state school educated status when applying to uni). Approx £19.5k pa, but VAT exempt because the education bit is ‘free’ and you are simply paying boarding/hotel fees. They are very competitive though and, in reality, largely populated by people leaving the private sector… so they demographics are almost identical.

The two I am thinking off are both rooted in the armed services, one army the other navy, and were initially set up for the children and orphans of serving officers.

apologies for no link however an interesting article by Peter Lampl, of Sutton Trust fame, in the Telegraph. Have only seen print edition, it’s on page 2.

Sir Peter not a fan, and aside from one line largely avoids any hyperbolic language.

Worth a read and if anyone has a token to link the online article that would be great.

‘it feels like there's a target on our backs and the hurt it's causing me/my DC is some kind of social retribution. ‘

Perhaps something for parents to ck aider when choosing schools.

Surrey?

The idea that the state do not provide it is an opinion, not a fact.

You have a choice to opt out based on the opinion. I have the absolute right not to subsidise your choice.

Please explain how you subsidise them? You realise the taxpayer pays £0 towards school fees so how are you subsidising them? Or have you just swallowed Labour lies and spin?

By paying higher taxes than necessary.

Thanks to austerity now we're in crisis so everyone is going to pay for decades.

All of this was totally preventable. With sensible redistributive social policy. Which is what we finally now have. Thank god.

Ps: I work in an overwhelmingly privately educated profession. Everyone in it is clever and charming and lovely. They are all utterly blinkered and sheltered and do a bad job because of it. IMO it's a terrible investment even personally - but as a society, it's a disaster to have an elite hived off in childhood.

So you are blaming independent schools for having to pay higher taxes? That is reaching somewhat and is totally false

It really is the independent school parents who are being asked to subsidise state schools and not the other way round.

They are paying taxes towards state schools (fine, generally no one arguing with this) while not using them (again fine, same as anyone who doesn’t have kids). But they are now being asked to pay a whole lot extra ostensibly to pay for the state education of other people’s children,* when even the most insanely wealthy state parents aren’t being asked to contribute any extra.

If that’s not a subsidy I don’t know what is!

*of course, the money isn’t ring-fenced so isn’t actually going to go towards state education at all but let’s not let facts get in the way of things.

FWIW: my children go to our local state school.