Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

Just a few thoughts on some private schools:

Specialist music and ballet schools (including the Royal Ballet School) have some places which are funded by the government via the Music and Dance (MDS) scheme, in order that exceptionally talented children from lower incomes can access the training needed at that age. There is no state provision whatever for that level of training, and that is why the scheme exists in the first place.

The dance or music teacher spots the child's potential and suggests that they should audition for a place. The parents don't choose to send their kids to that sort of school at all and would normally never consider a private education.

You can't just pick one of those schools and decide to send your dc there, even if you can afford full fees. There is a rigorous audition process, and the school offers places based on talent and potential alone. Funded places are based on parental income on a sliding scale, and are offered to the most exceptional students.

Adding VAT to fees paid by the government MDS scheme would be absurd, and if the scheme doesn't cover the additional VAT, then many parents wouldn't be able to pay either, so they would have to turn the place down.

Yet the fees ARE subject to VAT:
All institutions that meet the definition of a private school set out in the draft legislation are within scope of this policy. The draft legislation can be found online here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a7a1f8a3c2a28abb50d8c1/Private_Schools_Draft_Legislation_-_DIGITAL.pdf(opens in a new tab)
This definition includes music schools, dance schools, Centres for Advanced Training, and tuition centres where they charge fees for full-time education for pupils of compulsory school age. Institutions that charge fees for full-time education suitable for people over compulsory school age but under 19 (such as sixth forms) are also within scope of this policy.

The full fees of pupils in receipt of funding through the Music and Dance Scheme will be subject to VAT. The right time to consider any changes to schemes such as the Music and Dance Scheme is at the Spending Review.

I think the Music and Dance Scheme schools should be free for all children and just talent based entry. Why should anyone have to pay, if it is simply based on talent? In most countries, these schemes are entirely state sponsored.

Honestly if schools are going bust despite merging with big names like Uppingham, then this policy is likely to result in an abysmal failure for the Labour Party. So those cheering it on, I hope you know what this means.
The dog whistle policies simply ruin the reputation of the party and lead to Reform’s success. You can already see Farage playing the game - he is purging out the racists which were simply just useful tools and positioning himself as the party of change for all.

Also, Labour are no better with the NHS than the Tories. It is all big plans with no delivery. It was well known that flu vaccine uptake was too low in the autumn - if they actually really did care about vulnerable people, they would have launched a massive drive to get the flu jab then rather than us ending up with overwhelmed hospitals, just like under the Tories. Instead they got caught up with the negligent Budget, WFA and farmers etc - just like they are going to get distracted by Trump in due course. They really need to change course and do better.

It's a school that's 100 children below break even, was essentially insolvent 2 years ago and has a broken business model. People don't send 8 years to boarding schools like they used to.

It's very sad when any school closes but this was already on borrowed time before VAT, business rates and NI. It likely wouldn't have survived anyway.

No @Heathbear - the more interesting point is why the merger with Uppingham did not do much and do they now technically own that school and can they benefit financially from it? Can they sell off the real estate? Could lots of more elite private schools merge with little ones, they go bust and could they then benefit and become more elite? Could they then build a nice little endowment so no Government interference can get them in the future? All far more interesting. What is going to happen to these schools? And yes, Labour will get the blame for many so at the very least, they should start figuring out a plan on what to do about all the valuable real estate and lost jobs!

The buildings will be sold to developers in all likelihood so Uppingham has some helpful cash coming in. How that compares to the investment made since they took on the school who knows.

To be clear, any school that closes in coming months/years will have other contributing factors in addition to VAT, but it is disingenuous to claim they all would have closed anyways. It’s a bit like minimising the Truss interest rate fiasco because anyone affected was already overextended / had made other imprudent financial decisions, etc and thus were on ‘borrowed time’. VAT may not be the only factor, but for many of the schools closing it will be a decisive tipping point (especially when paired with rises in NI costs for employers).

A school that was at 60% of its break even capacity wasn't going survive in even the medium term VAT or no VAT.

And don’t forget the ongoing police investigation into historic abuse claims.

www.northants.police.uk/news/northants/news/appeals/2024/june/investigation-launched-into-allegations-of-non-recent-sexual-abuse/

@Heathbear clearly there was strong belief in the very recent past that the school had strong potential to turnaround, thus justifying significant capital investment. Clearly it’s business model needed to be revamped, but it is impossible to know whether without the compounding effects of COVID and Labour government it might have been able to navigate that change successfully.

it is too simplistic to look at these closures and try to determine which are related to Labour policy choices and which are down to other reasons - it will always be a mix of factors. It will be a decade or more before we have sufficient data to even attempt to isolate the effects of Labour policy on the private school sector, at which point any damage will have already been done.

Pretty sure allegations from 50 years ago (however serious and worthy of investigation) are not playing a meaningful role in the current economic viability of the school.

Earl Spencer's book was pretty high profile. It certainly can't have helped with the marketing efforts.

It’s not exactly a ringing endorsement either.

Would you send your children to board at a school under police investigation for historic abuse?

@SabrinaThwaite expectations of school and society have changed greatly in the past 50 years - there are many institutions (hospitals, schools (private and state), the police, the church) that I use and trust today will have less than salubrious episodes in the past. when researching my children’s current school I came across narratives from the 70s that painted the school at that time in a very poor light, including allegations of potentially illegal behaviour. It was momentarily interesting but had precisely zero impact on my decision because it bears no resemblance to the school today - no one working in the school today would have been there in the 70s, policies and practices have changed drastically, and society’s expectations are radically different.

would you avoid a hospital that was part of a scandal in the 70s, but has since developed a reputation for excellence?

@Labraradabrador There are lots of organisations that have been embroiled in historic abuse and still haven’t eradicated it - would you trust the Met Police? New and recent abuse scandals constantly coming to light in the Church - you trust them?

So no, I wouldn’t be sending my child to a school that has historical abuse claims hanging over it.

You must lead a very isolated life @SabrinaThwaite ! Any institution that has been around for 50 years will have had its share of scandal whether worthy of a book deal or not. Avoiding institutions based on historic wrongdoing seems a bit limiting, and I would bet money on at least one of the schools or organisations your children attending having some sort of claim in its past whether you have bothered to investigate or not.

let’s be real, it isn’t the facts of the case or the current school experience that stir your derision so much as the fact that it feeds a comfortable set of preconceived notions about what private boarding schools are like.

Given my DH went to a boarding school, my ‘preconceived notions’ are based on his personal experience. It was abusive and he was very unhappy.

Neither of us would ever put our own children through that.

@SabrinaThwaite very sorry for your husband’s experience, but having one experience in a boarding school doesn’t give special insight into all boarding schools, and in particular what it means to board today. Clearly this is an emotive issue for you, but for most parents the existence of problems in a school 50 years ago would not factor in their decision making. Whether state, private, day or boarding we care about what the school offers today, not how it functioned when my parents might have attended.

@Labraradabrador

It’s not particularly emotive for me, I wasn’t the one abused. I would never send an 8 year child away into the care of strangers.

And there are still cases of abuse coming to light at boarding schools that took place within the last few years. So I wouldn’t say ‘oh but that was 50 years ago’ and think that it couldn’t still be happening.

@SabrinaThwaite there are also cases of abuse in state schools - should we avoid all state schools because somewhere on the other side of the country abuse has occurred in a similar school? Your logic is flawed - abuse 50 years ago does not indicate probability of abuse today, and abuse in one school does not indicate abuse is more likely in schools of a similar category. Your arguments are playing into stereotypes not data.

It’s not my logic that is flawed. The original point raised was that Maidwell Hall school is closing, on economic grounds. I commented that the fact that it’s it now under police investigation for historic abuse claims won’t have helped it to attract / retain pupils.

You have made it into ‘you can’t hold a school responsible for things that happened 50 years ago’ and ‘you can’t hold boarding schools responsible for what has happened at other boarding schools’ and ‘these things happen at state schools too’.

Abuse at boarding schools has been widespread and well documented over decades. My point still stands that the BIL (or is he the former BIL?) of the King of England has made allegations about that particular school which won’t have helped it attract or retain pupils.

And my point is that in the weighing of reasons the school has closed a 50 yo scandal will not be the main (or even a major) driver. The school is closing on economic grounds - how can you deny that Labour economic policies (vat, standard tex relief, NI contributions) have not played a direct role? The point of this thread is that Labour are trying to undermine the private educational sector, which does not preclude other social and market factors contributing as well. Maidwell looked like a good investment 3 years ago, but Labour policy has fundamentally shifted the evaluation.