Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

And herein lies the issue. Labour have announced VAT on school fees saying that it is to syphon additional money into state schools. But the math don't math. They’ve also further inflamed the issue by using hyperbolic language (Bridget Philipson - I’m looking at you) almost designed to enrage people and introduced the policy in the most damaging, least kind way possible. I think it reflects so poorly. They could have handled this with humility, putting children first.

We all know its based on pure ideology. I would so prefer it if they owned that. They could have made the case based on equality and rolled it out in a kind, respectful and child centric way. I would have disagreed, but I would have respected labour far more. They have shown themselves to only want help people who they consider like themselves - this is the very criticism aimed at the conservatives for years. I would never vote for them now.

What they have done and how they have done it is disgraceful and hypocritical. It also stands up to no scrutiny.

The government chooses the funding formula, remember

They could easily have given the state schools that extra funding without adding the extra students (whose parents were happy paying for their education entirely themselves).

@SabrinaThwaite - are you really mocking a 13 year old child?!

It's a bit off to pose for these sad-face photos in the uniform of the comp that the daughter is now attending. I don't know it, but it actually looks like a decent school.

The whole thing is nuts
if I where to be in government, plan would be no VAT on fees if the school commits to
a decent set amount of scholarship places and a certain amount of bursary’s
surely that would be a more sensible way forward.
to get the UK economy and industry to thrive we need bright people who are capable and well educated to support this ,long-term vision seems to be a little bit lacking at the moment with the government

No @Araminta1003 I’m pointing out the angles that the parent that has pushed for this press coverage contain a load of rubbish.

There’s adequate school space. local authority school rolls are falling,some LA have identified schools to close eg Camden
private schooling is minority activity. Genuinely don’t think the electorate will be empathic about parents not affording private schools
With all the other pressures and competing demands this isn’t a priority. How @10 % parents chose to educate their children really is not a national priority

But it's not just about private school closing is it, it's the impact on schools/education over all and state schools absorbing those who leave the private sector especially those with additional needs who need a lot of support. Seems to be lost on a lot of people that this will negatively impact all kids not just those in the private sector. You should get a tax rebate for using private education as well as private healthcare as you are relieving the already massive burden on the state, not penalised for it!

I quote @SabrinaThwaite “I think my eyes were rolling so much at that point - I mean, ‘my dream of doing Vet Med is ruined because I can’t take Latin or Russian GCSE now’, seriously?”

That is mocking, in my opinion.
Year 9s and 10s having to be moved and not being able to do the MMLs or ancient languages for GCSEs that they were planning to do - that is an issue for them. I am surprised it is not appealable, in any event.
I chose my DCs grammar schools very carefully based on the MMLs/Latin that they wanted to do. And yes, they knew age 10 which ones they wanted to pursue because we care about these things and discussed it with them carefully, in advance.
Mock as much as you like. Lack of MML choice is a real problem in the current education system.

Becoming a vet is competitive and the child in question needs to be able to do the GCSEs she enjoys to achieve the best grades possible and if she was passionate about Latin and Russian, that is admirable, not mock worthy!

They aren't getting more funding THIS academic year. Funding set in place in Sept isn't revisited

No there isn’t adequate space. Stop with this rubbish. The “spare” places are not necessarily where they are needed. In the example given in the above article, the nearest school with a space was 25 miles away.

Where are they getting the money from? It doesn't come out of thin air and Labour aren't increasing the per pupil funding formula. There is no more income tax coming in so if schools get more pupils + another 7.5K per pupil then that is coming out of existing income tax pot, it isn't free to taxpayer! If the Treasury need to give more to education budget then it means reducing costs elsewhere.

Absolutely, which I have argued so many times on here. If pupil numbers are genuinely falling, that should enable the Government to increase funding per pupil.

I never said it was. Both our children go to our local state primary.

My point was in relation to forcing children to leave a school mid way through a GCSE or A Level course when this will cause enormous and completely avoidable disruption.

Actually councils in Newcastle, Surrey, Worcestershire, Oxfordshire and Wales are acknowledging that many state schools are already at full capacity.
The issue is that there isn't the capacity where it is needed.
Bulge years at secondary until 2029 ish. But kids need the places NOW, not in 4 years' time. No good saying Yorkshire has places to a parent in Devon.

I think the worst part in that family’s story is that that child potentially faces the prospect of changing state school twice, which is wholly unacceptable! That is what this Government has triggered for some kids.

We are told how important year 6/7 transition is in the state sector and then a Government deliberately goes and does this to thousands of children. Current year 9s were already disrupted in year 4/5 due to Covid. It’s so cruel to deliberately put a child through that.

All those in favour of this policy. Do not be surprised if there is a future public inquiry into this and wide scale damages for the victims.

Do stop catastrophising using emotive language. It undermines your already shaky points

Whilst I think the policy is problematic financially for the country, this talk of inquiries damages and victims is going overboard.

However - children with SN will probably be disproportionately affected. Just like their peers in state schools already are often poorly served. I don’t know that the govt has a plan to deal with SN though?

Labour voter here with DC at state schools.

Well there are currently 3 x legal challenges, 1 of which is SEN. All based around discrimination (on basis of SEN/single sex or religion) so although compensation isn't being mentioned it could happen if the legal challenges win.

@Tabletten - if the policy is financially problematic and DCs with SEND are affected negatively, that may well be enough for a future inquiry. That is why people keep posting online about the sheer madness of it. To highlight the risks. And to prove that it was widely known all along what was likely to happen. If it is disproportionate and reasonably foreseeable what the damage will be to CHILDREN, especially CHILDREN with disabilities and special educational needs, then they should not be able to get away with this unpunished.

Anyone supporting this policy and Labour, just look at what's happened in education in Wales under a Labour leadership. Worst scores in maths, English + science across the UK. Starmer has been very vocal in saying Wales is the blueprint for UK under Labour.

Quite.

“It’s clear that after 25 years in power, the Labour Welsh Government is tired and out of ideas when it comes to fixing the education system that they themselves broke.

https://www.partyof.wales/laboureducationfundingcrisis

Not to mention the NHS disaster, and reduction of women’s rights.

I’m mocking the parent who has gone to the press with over the top stories full
of inconsistencies and nonsense - hence the eye rolling.

The child needs to concentrate on English, maths and science at both GCSE and A level and getting relevant practical experience - because that’s what gets you onto Vet Med courses, not GCSEs in languages that are not offered in the vast majority of UK schools.

Actually there was a programme to introduce Latin into more state schools, Labour have just scrapped it leaving many in GCSE years unable to complete the GCSE.

But it is not necessary to study vet med.