Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

You haven't explained how Tulip Siddiq getting gifted a flat 20 years ago has anything to do with this, unless it's just a safe space thread to post today's Daily Mail splashes whether they're about schools or not.

It was the hypocritical, incompetent And corrupt angle I was going for. The vat debacle is another example of their incompetence; the Tulip Siddiq article, just one (rather serious) example of their corruption. What with Starmer endorsing it as acceptable, and all. It only makes one wonder further.. who the hell are these people.

Ps. You may wish to attempt to reframe this particular corruption scandal as what has the former president of Bangladesh got to do with us… but that rather desperate question doesn’t quite fit the facts. Starmers own Labour MP and Anti- corruption minister Tulip Siddiq, is shocker - corrupt.

At least Labour are consistent with their hypocrisy.

Struggling to keep up?

PP pointed out the hypocrisy of Starmer re his DS’s free use of a £18m gaff to revise in [whilst pursuing policies that penalise private school children because they’re deemed to be ultra privileged vis a vis state school kids];
another PP pointed out that Starmer and his government is nonetheless less corrupt than the Tories were;
OP pointed out (along with several others) how deeply, utterly corrupt numerous members of the labour party are and that their hypocrisy knows no bounds;
its relevance is that the labour fan club applauding the imposition of VAT on private schools [punishing middle class children] seem to give very few shits that it is being done by a corrupt and hypocritical government who clearly don’t have many qualms about availing themselves of the the trappings of wealth and privilege when it suits them.

I'm not particularly struggling to keep up, no. Pretty easy when the conclusion is predetermined: any fool can find disparate stories and clumsily retrofit them into their idées fixes.

Casting the sins of the individual onto the collective seems quite communist of you though. When it suits you.

Have requested my last post be deleted. Lost my temper.

Accusations of

‘idées fixes’ and

‘Casting the sins of the individual onto the collective’

would have that effect on me too 😂🤷‍♀️

I find a lot of the gloating posts around the introduction of tax on education revolting as well as spiteful and jealous. Never seen people take such an interest and delight in something that doesn't impact them, as if there is some moral high ground in squeezing a bit more blood out of the stone.

Indeed. We are lower/ (just) middle rate tax payers whose disabled child wasn’t offered a state education, hence we had little choice but to enter the private system in the first place for our children. Some of the views on these threads are quite mind boggling in their spite. The views I find most upsetting are from the higher rate tax payers who have the good fortune of their child being able to attend a good local state school which meets their needs. Their glee at families like mine being expected to fund their child’s state school improvements is quite extraordinary.

As for the delighted cries of “it’s a very popular policy!”, well of course it is. Sigh. Let’s all watch the elite public schools become even more elite and forget about the rest.

Corruption in any party should be rooted out. It wasn’t in 14 years in the conservatives to their absolute shame, despite having 5 different Tory PMs in that time, which is an appalling lack of leadership.
Starmer needs to take a super hard line on it.

However it’s not corruption or relevant/comparable to my eyes to complain about a party leader moving a child to avoid journalists on the family doorstep during a GCSE period coinciding with elections.

Privilege yes to have the option to borrow a place but who thinks a lawyer/political party leaders child isn’t going to have a vastly more privileged life in some ways? with access to social capital we can’t even imagine. But with a vastly worse less privileged life than normal kids in other ways like with security threats and constant scrutiny of what they’re doing or achieving in life. You can’t really compare. Still remember the Blair kids’ lives being reported on which must have been extremely stressful for them.

VAT imposition on education is still wrong and there’s plenty of Labour voters like me that think that.

Ok not this pair. Although to be fair we did have a conversation after a reunion where we wondered whether we were a bit odd.

it may be because our first born will never live independently. - it does change your perspective somewhat. It may he because during much of the younger kids school years we were simply too tied up with ds1 & trying to keep him with us & the younger 2 safe to really have time to sharpen any elbows. It may be because we both are completely anti moulding children in our own image or may be because we value all work equally. Some of my closest friends work in roles that many on here would see as beneath them. To be fair I have worked in roles that many on here would see as beneath them. It may be because I work in mental health and see what parental expectations (& nowadays school expectations) can do to kids.

So no, no sharp elbows here. I’m not going to share what my adult kids do but whilst some on this thread would see ds2 as a success (& some would be horrified), I’m sure you’d be saying ‘yes but what is he going to do?’ about ds3 (meaning when is he going to university).

I am proud that that both younger kids are robust, secure, happy (quite a challenge these days), like spending time with us in their busy lives, know what they want to do and are very much doing it.

That’s rather a digression from the starting point of this thread. Tbf I’d like to see education completely rethought across all sectors. Academies need to go. I loathe high stakes exams (although they served me well). There are huge (& increasing) numbers of kids out of school at the moment - and this is probably a bigger problem for local authorities than what to do with any private school closures. Of course ministers should be visiting private schools though - otherwise they’re not even pretending this isn’t an ideological decision rather than pragmatic and that does make them as bad as the Tories.

“However it’s not corruption or relevant/comparable to my eyes to complain about a party leader moving a child to avoid journalists on the family doorstep during a GCSE period coinciding with elections.”

But Starmer continued to use his mate’s flat for three weeks after his son’s exams ended, and therefore he seriously misled the public about the reasons for it.

Afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree - they have a home outside No10 where a security detail could have been placed to ensure child’s privacy. There are W/c kids sharing bedrooms with multiple siblings, some still infants, many (as PPs above state) with little to no access to the internet and barely any food on the table and we’re supposed to bleed for the son of the PM? Whose name/face/identity [along with his other children] are actually protected under law such that the media are not allowed to report on them anyway?

And yes, I can compare Tory corruption with Labour corruption and find them both equally appalling. The difference is that Labour stood on an anti-corruption ticket (to use US parlance). They claimed to be the party of change, to be anti sleaze… and yet that is all we’ve seen. Sleaze, corruption and a vicious reliance on a spiteful ideology.

But as others point out, it is a partial derail - I feel VAT on education is utterly wrong, even though I will luckily never have to pay it, most especially because it will be working class kids - with and without SEN needs - in struggling schools who will continue to be failed.

Accepting a donation which is then declared doesn’t mean corruption. PM’s of all parties have accepted free holidays off rich mates who like their parties, for decades.

The vast majority of teachers in indies have teaching qualification as well as a degree (or hiigher) in the subject they teach. They can pay for the best and those teachers have transferable skills if the school closes -they won’t need to work in sink schools.
There are plenty of stare teachers with poor ir no qualifications. I was offered a job at one state school to teach Physics (I failed they GCSE) and by another to teach maths (have a D at A level) because I was a highly competent supply teacher and actively taught the classes I covered. But no way was I qualified! Like lots of state teachers.
But I took a job teaching my actual area of expertise at an indie school where all the Maths physics and other teachers are qualified and teaching their own area of expertise.
Parents of kids in state schools, other than the elite schools the Labour MPs access for theirs, have no idea of the quality of teaching they don’t have.

@EHCPerhaps

“We had a situation where the election was called. Not what we expected ... My son happened to be in the middle of his GCSEs. That means there are a lot of journalists outside the front door and in the street. I’m not complaining about that. But if you’re 13, as my girl is, if you’re 16, as my boy is, that’s quite hard to navigate when you’re concentrating on GCSEs.

”So I said, we’re going to get you out of here and get you somewhere where you can just study and get to school and back without having to go through all of that. And that’s when someone said, well, in which case I can make this flat available to you. It’s safe, secure. He can get on with the job.”

Starmer declared the flay was used from 29 May to 13 July – but the GCSE exam period ended on 19 June.

Of even more relevance to the current debate, it seems it’s only Starmer’s children who deserve to focus on their GCSEs without interruption. Those who are having to be pulled out of independent schools midway through their courses don’t get quite the same consideration do they? Labour could have staggered the VAT implementation so it didn’t apply to anyone mid-way through GCSEs or A Levels but clearly private school posho kids don’t matter in the same way as our Dear Leader’s children.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/25/keir-starmer-flat-labour-donor-waheed-alli-son-gcses

OK but your argument is against the unfairness of financial privilege disparity in general.

I’m not saying its not unfair for a privileged family to have a fancy flat to borrow. Loads of kids have to sit their GCSEs in terrible home situations. Thats obviously very unfair. on top of a lifetime of unequal unfairness.

I'm saying that since the flat stay for GCSEs and a holiday been declared as a gift it's not illegal. Nor is it evidence in itself of corruption as has been repeatedly asserted. Senior Ministers and PMs of all parties take free holidays thst much is commonplace. This has cost the taxpayer nothing.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/my-parents-gave-me-a-choice-leave-private-school-or-move-house-jqzkfbjnh

Poor kid, but brave girl. She will go far, regardless of Labour! I hope she goes in to Politics and stands up for herself, despite this nonsense from Starmer, Reeves, Phillipson & Co.

Starmer’s son is 100 per cent more privileged than all these children being displaced and disrupted by their downright ignorant verging on nasty policy.

No, my arguments are that it’s wrong to apply VAT to education, that it unfairly penalises middle earning families and those with SEN children in return for no discernible improvements to state education, that the Labour government is not even trying to improve state education, that the government is also highly hypocritical in pretending to be the morality party but happily taking bungs/ ensuring its own children enjoy every possible privilege while punishing independently educated children who will now be forced to leave.

Inequality generally in this country is an issue, but it exists in so many forms - in education, buying an expensive catchment house, sending kids to grammar schools not the failing comp, paying for tutors etc. The part that independent schools play in this inequality has been massively over exaggerated.

Going to a state school isn't a punishment.

Gosh, Ava Lambert got herself into The Times, The Telegraph and the FT. Or is it Nicole Lambert? And what about the mother of three’s other children?

It’s a shame that the articles contradict each other so much and that The Times and the FT didn’t mention that Ava’s mother is part of Education not Taxation.

I’m always a little surprised when these people reveal their incredibly expensive hobbies too. Tell me again, how much does it cost to do junior eventing?

The Times one actually does mention this at the end. Pretty odd that, given this policy is supposedly impacting so many people, that group placed the exact same case study in the Times, Telegraph and FT.

1000s of case studies are sent to journalists. It is up to them which ones they choose to fit the agenda of the article they are writing.
There are 10K fewer kids in Indy schools than this time last year. 10K more which have to now be funded by the taxpayer and more leaving from January onwards as you have to give 1 term's notice usually

Apologies, you’re right - it was The Times that was the only one to mention ENT.

I think my eyes were rolling so much at that point - I mean, ‘my dream of doing Vet Med is ruined because I can’t take Latin or Russian GCSE now’, seriously?

You talk as if "more kids being funded by the taxpayer" is a waste of money. What it means is that state schools are getting more funding. Good.

1000s of case studies are sent to journalists. It is up to them which ones they choose to fit the agenda of the article they are writing.

The sane case study published on the same day by three different newspapers? What are the chances eh?