“Avoid” GCSEs for extremely bright DD?

[TeensMom]

DD is extremely bright, but also very driven and cut-throat competitive.

DH was educated overseas and can’t understand why we would drag DD through the mill of GCSEs, originally designed as an exit exam for school leavers, at a time when she could be continuing to learn new topics (rather than spending months rote-learning topics she’s already covered) and developing her critical thinking and debating/essay writing skills.

I devoted Years 8 to 11 to a self-imposed 16 hours a day 365 days a year regime to ace my GCSEs, which paid off in my grades, but took away four of my teenage years and left me entering Year 12 without the social skills or maturity to negotiate my sixth form friendships and settle down to study my ‘A’ level courses.

After an emotionally disastrous 13+ Scholarship term (got one, failed 2, best friend got both she applied for and didn’t fail any), we can see that competition with her school friends over anticipated GCSE grades (all aiming for 10 or 11 grade 9s) will be extremely destructive for her self-esteem and is likely to lead to an eating disorder, self-harm or worse.

We’re considering taking her out of the British system and instead sending her to a well-regarded international school nearby, where her first public exam would be the IB in Year 13.

Any advice from other families who have been in a similar position or anyone involved with university applications in the UK, Europe or USA?

You'd potentially be hampering her later progress. Your approach to GCSE study sounds very excessive - if she's as bright as you say there's no way she'll have to study that hard.

I don’t think this is true, I have plenty of friends who came from abroad to study in the U.K. with zero issue. DP came to the uni just about speaking English and got into a good uni a year later! Unis convert the foreign grades, all courses will have an IB entry standard already.

Having said that if you are worried about GCSEs being intense IB is far worse. A lot of students at my cousins school dropped it and switched to A levels because they are easier.

Wow, you spent a lot of effort on your GCSEs! I managed mostly A's and 3* without revision, although that might be down to smaller class sizes and good teaching in private. You're both really over thinking this. Uni's look at GCSE info for offers. If you pass 5 you're generally fine. If you want to take GCSE's earlier you can too - most schools are exam testing centres.There was this girl in the paper this year doing a ridiculous amount A'Levels at her own pace too if you're super keen on making her buck the system www.thetimes.com/uk/article/schools-are-failing-bright-pupils-like-me-says-teen-taking-28-a-levels-h6c2n9bn2

Maths and English literature are compulsory for the IB and are a higher level qualification than GCSE, so any university will accept them as an alternative. Most big employers are also used to dealing with non UK qualifications.

OP, the best thing you could do for your DD is teach her resilience, learning to manage her time effectively, not working so hard that she burns out. Put GCSEs into perspective. Try to do the best you can but they really aren’t the be all and end all. You don’t even need straight 9s for Oxbridge or medicine.

The IB is a lot more work than A levels. You need to be an all rounder. You can still do very well if you aren’t but if she has to take a subject that she doesn’t excel at, she may find that hard to deal with based on what your description. If you think she might struggle with the mental load of GCSEs, perhaps A levels are a better choice for her.

Personally, I would be considering moving her to a less competitive academic school where she isn’t in a toxic environment and/or getting professional help to help her deal with coping with what sounds like almost obsessive perfectionism and fear of failure. You need to tackle that otherwise everything is going to come crashing down when she takes exams for the first time when she does the IB or, worse, she burns out or goes off the rails at university when she doesn’t have family support.

A bright kid ought to be able to sail through GCSEs just on homework, school revision sessions and a bit of light revision at weekends.

Skipping GCSEs might make things trickier when it comes to applying to universities/courses that select using GCSE results (amongst other criteria) eg medicine, vet sci, Oxbridge. Although, presumably they have alternative criteria for international students. You can always ask the admissions teams how they would deal with a UK student who didn’t take GCSEs when selecting candidates for interview.

That's interesting @pingster and I wish the best to your DD. It is unusual tho not to study GCSEs in secondary school in England.

But what if she hadn't wanted to take maths A level or an essay subject that replicated English?

I think the point is that while there may be situations in which GCSEs in the core subjects are not needed, it makes it easier if you have them. I'm not the only person on this thread who has had to show GCSE or equivalent certificates (sounds like your DD will have equivalents) and there are often posts on MN from ppl who need to track down their GCSE certs for various reasons – to access H or F ed, or for a job role.

Ditto. Friend is 46, 2 Bachelors, Masters, 20 years experience as a paramedic alongside prescribing qualifications and due to a new job has to find her GCSE maths certificate from 1994.

Honestly if she’s bright she’ll walk GCSE’s.

I think her perfectionist streak has to be dealt with because she will still have to sit exams at some point anyway and it will rear it’s head.

I am very confused about why there seems to be such an extreme aversion to GCSE's? They are not an 'exit' qualification and as previous posters have said they are expected in order to progress and show achievement when preparing for the world of work. I work for a college in England and where English and Maths GCSE's haven't been attained at a level 2 we expect learners to work towards these alongside their 'new' qual anyway, so surely this would just be more work for her then? If your DD is as bright as you say I wouldn't mollycoddle - let her get on with it and introduce the concept of examinations and competitiveness now while it's not the be all and end all, and I'm sure she'll do brilliantly!

Your poor daughter. I think you are projecting a lot of your own issues on to her. Your own study ‘regime’ was brutal and unnecessary, I hope you using it as an example of what not to do! I’m sad to think that your parents allowed you to do this. IME (I’m a teacher) kids aren’t generally competitive with each other for GCSEs, the competitive ones are competitive with themselves. You need to be saying that you are proud of her and her gcse results won’t change that - she doesn’t have to get all 9s!!!! My dc has just been through GCSEs and part of my job was to tell her when to stop and to make sure she went for walks and chilled out a bit - she would have worked all the time otherwise. It sounds like you think your dd lacks resilience - avoiding challenges will not help her in the long run at all.

If she’s very bright then she’ll breeze through GCSEs. Studying for 16 hours a day for GCSEs is completely unhinged and unnecessary. She could need these exams for so many things she wants to do in the future so very short-sighted to avoid them.

Of course she may have friends who do better than her. That will happen all her life so she may as well get used to it.
You are way over-thinking all of this.

I don't understand the OP at all. Why would an extremely bright and competitive teenager need to be removed from GCSEs? Why are you trying to complicate your teenager's life at a crucial time for friendships and learning by moving her to another school where she'll sit a different but equally tough set of qualifications and where she'll have to spend the rest of her academic life and career explaining why she doesn't have standard, internationally recognised UK qualifications?

I have been asked for gcse certificates too - I also think there is a massive difference between being able to say that you don’t have GCSEs because you are from another country and having to say that you don’t have them because your mother thought it would be too stressful.
I mean this kindly but if you suffer from extreme anxiety it is probably more useful to tackle this.

I work with young people and they do have to have to produce evidence of their GCSE grades for apprenticeships, level 3 courses and university.

As pp stated sitting exams again 16 is useful preparation for exams at 18.

Post Covid and with a return to exams we had students in meltdown at their first set of exams at 18. They felt too high stakes at that that stage.

Id suggest she only focuses on herself and her grades rather than the competition.

cut-throat competitive
drag through the mill
self imposed regime
emotionally disastrous
extremely destructive

I think perhaps you are putting too much pressure on her. What does she want to do?

Also wholeheartedly agree with others that 16 hours PER DAY is completely bonkers. Do not let your daughter do this when she is already fragile from the pressure. Crazy.

Its possible to do GCSE's and get good results while still enjoying your teenage years you know, its not either/or. Especially if you are bright

I am very confused about why there seems to be such an extreme aversion to GCSEs

Same. I think it's just fashionable to knock the UK education system, which - against all odds - is still one of the best in the world. GCSEs are competitive, involve rote learning and memorisation, working under pressure and exam strategy (aka 'gaming the system') - these are all GOOD things and developing them while young is good for self-esteem, resilience and future prospects.

Your method was bonkers and completely unsustainable, an adult should have stepped in to give you balance and to teach you how to manage your time better.

Most bright teens manage their 10 GCSEs, and still maintain interests and social lives. Taking on leadership roles at scouts or cadets, learning an instrument to a high level, playing sport for their county or higher. Truly bright children don't need to study excessively.

GCSEs are a shared experience and life for her in the UK will be much easier for her if she has GCSEs which employers understand, at the very least in English and Maths. Nor having them, if remaining in the UK 'others' her.

She needs a hobby and therapy. Not a kick of the can down the road and extreme expectations. Maybe your daughter is of average intelligence. Maybe she is academically smart but lacking self-awareness and emotional intelligence or a solid grasp of the bigger picture (i.e. life).

Students from abroad usually have some sort of end of high school certificate that can equate to around GCSE standard.

Have you reflected honestly on what subtle messages you and your DH have been signalling to your DD?

After an emotionally disastrous 13+ Scholarship term (got one, failed 2, best friend got both she applied for and didn’t fail any)

How many scholarships does one need? How was getting one "emotionally disastrous"?

What do you think you've learned from your own experience of your 365 day plan? It doesn't sound like a lot of modelling healthy mindset towards exams. Not sure switching to IV is going to make up for that.

I think i can tell where your daughter gets her 'drive' and 'cut throat' competitiveness.

16 hours a day is a bit much, i think.

I agree it feels like you are catastrophising massively - why should any of this happen?

4 years of 16 hours a day… how was your mental health at the time? That’s an insane amount of work for exams that aren’t that hard. I’d imagine people studying for the Bar or at medical school doing that kind of insane workload. Didn’t it make you sick and tired? Or do you come from an Asian family where that kind of work load is expected?

If she’s at a school where a string of 9s is realistic/normal then move her to a much less academic school where 9s happen but are nice rather than expected. I went to a school where I felt stupid despite leaving with 5 A-levels at A grade. (No A star back then) I had poor self esteem and came from parents who didn’t nurture things like confidence but they chose the famous school with the academic reputation.

Hmmm... how can it be both "extremely hard work" and "not enough depth for the UK uni"? 🤔

What is not covered in Maths HL compared to A Level?