“Avoid” GCSEs for extremely bright DD?

[TeensMom]

DD is extremely bright, but also very driven and cut-throat competitive.

DH was educated overseas and can’t understand why we would drag DD through the mill of GCSEs, originally designed as an exit exam for school leavers, at a time when she could be continuing to learn new topics (rather than spending months rote-learning topics she’s already covered) and developing her critical thinking and debating/essay writing skills.

I devoted Years 8 to 11 to a self-imposed 16 hours a day 365 days a year regime to ace my GCSEs, which paid off in my grades, but took away four of my teenage years and left me entering Year 12 without the social skills or maturity to negotiate my sixth form friendships and settle down to study my ‘A’ level courses.

After an emotionally disastrous 13+ Scholarship term (got one, failed 2, best friend got both she applied for and didn’t fail any), we can see that competition with her school friends over anticipated GCSE grades (all aiming for 10 or 11 grade 9s) will be extremely destructive for her self-esteem and is likely to lead to an eating disorder, self-harm or worse.

We’re considering taking her out of the British system and instead sending her to a well-regarded international school nearby, where her first public exam would be the IB in Year 13.

Any advice from other families who have been in a similar position or anyone involved with university applications in the UK, Europe or USA?

Consider whether they would be applying to UK universities. Would they be ok without GCSE or equivalent results?

If she is very bright and driven, GCSEs would not be difficult. I work in a selective grammar school and the brightest students attend 5 hours of lessons a day, complete 1.5-2 hours of homework a day and do some revision (not an excessive amount by any means) before the exams at the end of Year 11 and get 10 plus GCSEs of grade 8 and 9. Certainly no 16 hour days needed!

Are they likely to live or work in UK in future as basic gcses English, Maths, Science - are usually expected. If she is bright achieving them should not be difficult,

If you needed to revise for 16 hours a day for 4 years for your GCSE’s you were doing something very wrong. There’s a lot of content, and you need to work hard, but they’re not THAT hard.

aren’t you just kicking the can down the road? So she does her first public exams at 18. What if they’re a disaster? Where’s her resilience if, after the first sign of difficulty at 13 you just walk away?

As pp said. Almost all post 16 courses or employment in the UK will require GCSE English and Maths or an equivalent.

If she is bright these exams are not difficult, my DD was fairly bright and got 8 top grades without studying to the extent you are thinking. But she was also very nervous taking important exams for the first time, so as a trial run for A levels and beyond they were useful and proved to her that she could do it.

There are quite a few uk schools that do the IB. Off the top of my head, two grammar schools in the London suburbs and one good independent school in Kent. I'm sure there are loads more. GCSE's are fine for bright kids - just a lot of content to memorise.

Agree with this.
No joke, I had 10 A* at GCSE and never revised more than 3 hours after school as I had worked consistently throughout the year

Ps - the IB is hard and you need to be good all rounder but it's a great foundation for uni work.

Children in schools around here that do the IB in sixth form take GCSEs first.

Absolutely no need for 16 hour days!! The message these days is work smart not hard ie. focus on your weak points/areas you find difficult.

As a previous poster said, unless your dd learns these skills and resilience, you will just be kicking the can down the road. I'd actually suggest some therapy now to help her develop, rather than avoiding the issue.

we can see that competition with her school friends over anticipated GCSE grades (all aiming for 10 or 11 grade 9s) will be extremely destructive for her self-esteem and is likely to lead to an eating disorder, self-harm or worse

Why? Does she have history of MH issues?

Studying for 16 hours a day for 4 years for GCSE's is crazy behaviour. Nowhere near necessary.

Why did you work so hard for your GCSEs? That’s really not the norm. Bright children should be able to do well with a couple of hours’ homework a night max. It really doesn’t need 4 years of 16 hour days. If you’re concerned that doing well will require excessive work for your daughter, maybe you should relax your expectations a bit. It sounds as if the whole family takes a fairly extreme approach to both effort and expectation.

That said, there’s nothing wrong with the IB route. They are accepted by universities and are also considered equivalent for the purposes of employment.

It may just be a question of helping her to understand that 'aceing GCSEs' is just a kind of gamesmanship, something separate from actual learning and from actual talent or self-worth.
I wish I had fully understood, when my sons were at secondary school, just how distorted and exam-driven the whole curriculum had become. I mean, I did understand it in a sense, but I hadn't really clocked just how differently school education had to be viewed in the light of this distortion.
Real intellectual nourishment and personal development has to happen outside the school system now. If GCSEs can be viewed fully for what they are (something semi-bureaucratic and extraneous to self-worth), it may be more possible to succeed in getting the grades without losing sight of oneself and ones own intellectual and social needs while pursuing them.

EDIT: And, yes, I agree with others that succeeding in getting good gcse grades doesn't have to involve an insane level of effort, especially for a bright child. You just have to play the game, jump through the hoops.

If she’s planning on further study in the UK I don’t think you’d be doing her any favours by not letting her take GCSEs to be honest.

Putting off taking her first external exams doesn’t sound sensible either. It’s a good way to learn how to plan and balance your time. How to become more resilient too.

Your approach was bonkers and I’m sure that your dd’s school can help with planning a more balanced plan for her in the run up to her exams.

Our DS has got 11 A* and distinction at additional maths. He kept his out of school activities going throughout but just used his time efficiently and effectively.

Agree with OP. If you've got A levels, no one asks what GCSEs you've got. I have reached retirement with not a soul showing the remotest interest in my GCEs,

Personal development and pursuing interests trump bits of paper - unless GCSEs are the only likely qualifications your child will get then they are more important. Go with the international school would be my advice.

I disagree. A friend in her 40s has recently been asked to produce her GCSE certificates for Maths and English before being allowed to start a Masters degree.

16 hours a day study from year 8 is bonkers.

The advantages to GCSEs are that students go into a levels having done exams.

The IB diploma is extremely hard work and for some subjects (maths in particular) does not give students the depth of study they need for U.K. universities.

It is absolutely not necessary for a bright child to be spending significant time revising before year 11 and most don't need to do 16 hours a day even in year 11.

You sound like you had perfectionist tendencies as a teen.

You wouldn't be doing her any favours leaving her with no GCSEs. You would do better to try to teach her how to study sensibly, balance study and hobbies and learn resilience. All skills which will come in useful for A level / degree level study.

likely to lead to an eating disorder, self-harm or worse. sounds quite dramatic, all teenagers don't suffer from these, yet 99%+ sit GCSEs. How do some avoid these pitfalls without avoiding GCSEs? What can you do other than avoiding GCSEs?

I’m not sure how your DD being extremely bright tallies with her failing two of the three 13+ scholarship exams she sat? It sounds to me as if studying for and sitting her GCSEs will be an important and necessary part of her emotional growth - she needs to learn to become much more resilient, how to cope with setbacks and struggles, and most importantly how to manage the preparation for exams in a more balanced way than you did. No-one needs to devote 16 hours a day for 365 days a year for four years to achieving top grades in GCSEs - they are absolutely not that hard!

Honestly, I think you need to be looking more at the underlying reasons for the problems. If things are worrying you this much at this stage I doubt things will improve significantly by the time she is in 6th form just by avoiding GCSEs. It's not really the exams that are the issue is it - most pupils manage them without any major mental health issues - it’s your DD's approach. Setting yourself high standards and some friendly competition between peers is a good thing but it sounds like things are going beyond what is healthy. Being "cut throat competitive" is not healthy and nor is viewing "only" getting one scholarship as disastrous. If you are worried about eating disorders, self harm etc now, you need to be looking at the underlying reasons. A change of school may be part of the way to manage things but I would suspect that if that's all you do you're just kicking the can down the road and the same issues will show themselves when she comes to do the IB and beyond.
Plenty of people don't have GCSEs for all kinds of reasons and I'm sure a good IB result would be very acceptable to many Universities here and abroad, but I don't think that's actually the issue here.

GCSE’s are really not that hard or that time consuming for smart kids. Mine didn’t exactly break their necks studying, eldest didn’t knuckle down until year 10 and they go a straight run of 8’s with a couple of 7’s. It neither drove them to self harm or distress or had a huge affect on their hobbies or social lives. Youngest is in year 10, currently working at nothing less than a 7 and at 8 and 9 in a few subjects and he’s really not working remotely hard. I think your issue is more about you and how you studied than your daughter

Agree with this. It does sound a bit as if your expectations for her might be out of line with her abilities and you’re anticipating her making up the gap through overwork. If the risk you’re worried about is that she gets a bunch of 7s and 8s while her friend gets 9s, and that this triggers a Mh crisis, the problem is not the exams but her resilience and your expectations.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. She can work reasonably hard for her GCSEs and get reasonably good grades. Personally, I feel she'd learn more by learning to let go of destructive competitiveness and perfectionism, and learning to moderate, whilst maintaining hobbies and continuing with her own extra studies if that interests her, than she would by opting out before she's even started.

If you're worried that sitting GCSE exams could genuinely trigger some catastrophic chain of events, then I'd suggest looking into counselling. That's not a healthy reaction, and if it's not addressed, then she'll be no more prepared in year 13 than in year 11.

Not 'banking' some GCSEs might leave her vulnerable if illness of any sort strikes in 6th form.