Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse”

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Whitehall ‘braced for private schools collapse’ due to fee rises

Worth reading the whole article, it’s not quite as alarmist as the headline suggests. But as you’d expect, gov sources are talking it all down while the ISC is ringing the alarm bell.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

I’d be quite surprised if some of the schools near us don't fold tbh. There will definitely be a contraction in the sector, I just hope those that hold on can remain a viable concern.

We have had a very similar experience to you. I’ve had 19 years of fighting a completely broken system and am pretty much broken myself. The Tories are responsible for the complete balls-up of state education over the past 14 years, but Labour have clearly got no plans whatsoever to overhaul and improve the system, especially with regard to SEN provision.

To add, as a knackered primary school teacher with a class of 35 and no support. We feel we're failing and have no capacity to 'up our game'. Believe me, we try to do the best we can.

Sorry to hear that CatkinToadflax. It takes a massive toll on health, relationships, finances, careers. There are so many of us in this position. Disproportionate impact on women parenting SEND kids of course. I hear from parents living in different LAs who have been treated illegally in so many different ways. It’s not malicious but there is simply not enough money to go round so councils are forced into acting illegally.

Sherrystrull very sorry that you are at the sharp end of this funding crisis. It’s not fair on school staff at all. Thank you for all you are doing

@MerryMaker locally a school near my home was gutted by fire, all the nearest 6 schools were shuffled and rearranged to each accommodate a portion of the students. rebuilding started within 1 year and students were able to return to the site within 5 years.
i've seen community centers temporarily used, i've seen schools broken up over different local sites like church basements again temporarily.
why is bussing included in the school day? why are temporary toilets not in place, why are parent volunteers not assisting?

what has been done over 2 years? site assessment? work out to tendors? site prep? what is the birth rate and actual need? what nearby local government buildings are vacant?

In practice this is absolute bollocks. I was an extremely high ability child in a state comp - the school did absolutely nothing for me despite continued pressure from my parents. I was absolutely miserable, frustrated, depressed and had huge emotional problems from the school and ended up hardly in school at all from 15-18. Absolutely nothing about my experience in that school - and it wasn’t even a sink comp - made any difference to the ethos or teaching of that school. In fact, the teachers were openly hostile to children who were academically ambitious and regarded them as an annoying inconvenience who should know their place.

My daughter is currently testing out within the top 0.5th centile of her cohort in national ability assessment tests (these tests are done across both state and private schools). She has particularly high aptitudes in maths, Latin/languages, music and writing. Our only state option is the local catchment school (we are in a catchment-only area), where they cheerfully admitted to me that not only could they not provide resources for her, but they would have absolutely no intention of doing so (the head actually laughed at the idea). They don’t stream/set, and certainly don’t offer Latin or advanced maths.

Am I supposed to make her go to a school that says it can’t really cater for her, in which she would be as frustrated and bored as she was in her (actually very good) state primary, just for some nebulous idea about it being good for others? They spend most of their time dealing with behavioural problems. There is no pressure from me that is going to make them hire a Latin teacher or offer extension maths. It’s completely mendacious to suggest that would happen. Only changes in national policy do that (and, for anyone who seems to think underfunding is inevitable, there was a flourishing gifted and talented programme in state schools under the last Labour government, including lots of funding for NAGTY, which was cancelled by the coalition/Tory governments as soon as they could. It’s a deliberate political choice not to fund G&T provisions in the state sector, just as much as it is not to fund proper SEND provision).

Parents of kids who are SEND or who need other related kinds of support have a similar experience - no matter how much they ask a school, there won’t be any results because the state sector just isn’t set up for it and parental pressure means nothing. My DD has got a bursary and scholarship to a private school where they actually want her and can actually provide for her, and where there are also quite a lot of kids who have SEND or related needs which the local state schools can’t provide for. But according to all of the self-righteous people in the thread, my daughter is meant to suffer because of their ideological hobbyhorses? Why? Kids like her are going to be the doctors and research scientists of the future who’ll be keeping you alive in your old age. It makes zero sense to punish kids for their parents’ wealth. There’s plenty of inequality out there to tax - starting with property wealth - without breaching the principle that education should not be taxed.

@CatkinToadflax sending you 💐 - I know lots of parents doing this, and not only is the state system not set up to cater for SEN, the threshold for an ECHP gets ever higher and higher - as a state school governor I could see the sheer numbers on our school waiting lists and it’s not even as bad in our area as in some — friends in London were told that schools wouldn’t accept a private diagnosis, and the state waiting lists for assessment was 2-3 years - meanwhile they were being advised by their school to present with the child to A&E for the psychiatric crisis team as a suicide risk, as it was the only way to speed up diagnosis — absolutely shocking!! This is what’s happening for SEND children!

Of course parents in that position go private if they can (and they actually eases the waiting lists pressure for those who can’t, another issue that the ideologues on this thread don’t get!)

@Juliagreeneyes if the child is not actually at risk of suicide, it will not speed anything up.

You think that’s the right response to this…? To a state primary telling parents of a SEND child that that’s the only thing they can recommend?

Even worse that Labour aren’t even attempting to improve things.

And that so many of their supporters have decided that bashing the private school poshos and hopefully* raising enough money for 1/3 of a new teacher per school plus a bowl of cornflakes means that state education is now fixed!

*but probably not raising even enough money for this.

I think advising parents to lie at A and E about their child is pretty awful actually.

Someone has to own everything, who do you want to own buildings people choose to rent?

LAs who lets face it havent got a brilliant reputation for caring for their tenants and repairing adequately, Housing Associations, which if you don't believe private schools should be charities have a little look into those, large commercial operations who build to rent mainly under foreign ownership like HSBC.

Or so you want to force everyone to buy when they don't want to?

First - they weren’t lying - second; this was a state primary saying that was ALL the help they could offer. You think those parents are thinking “well it’s good that we’re in the state system, that’ll put pressure on things to change”?

@Marchitectmummy council housing used to be good quality.
Buy to lets encouraged people to buy a house, rent it out, and use the rent to pay the mortgage. It pushed house prices up and rents. Before buy to let mortgages were made legal, it was cheaper per month to rent than to pay a mortgage. Now a mortgage is cheaper.

@Juliagreeneyes similar experience to me very bright at local comp even though both parents grammar educated totally turned off education. No way was that happening to my son when I visited to the local school I went to it was just dire - large portion of social deprivation large crowd control issues proportion of kids not ready for school this was told to me by a teacher friend working there. We were offered an outstanding s hook but within2 years it was in special measures after the head left why would I sacrifice my son for some ideological bullshit

@Juliagreeneyes - my 4 DC have a similar profile to yours and we are lucky enough to have superselective grammar schools within a reasonable distance as well as London and county level orchestras and choirs that have accommodated their talents. It is not fair and a complete postcode lottery! I also went to a state grammar and only to public school for 2 years because my parents had to work abroad so I boarded and therefore understand first hand what the best of private school has to offer, or at least did in the past. Several of my family members send their DCs to public schools because they are also working in jobs overseas.

Numerous European countries have private schools at a similar percentage level to us and none of these pathetic class hatred issues. Many also still have a grammar system AS WELL as schools that are not sink but teach children who are less academic excellent trade skills within the education system. These kids go on to be valuable members of society earning respectable and living wages.
The constant push for academic achievement rather than finding a talent and being a valuable member of society is what is destroying us. It is greed and envy at all levels. We should respect every child and member of society and bring out the best in them. Stop envying the naturally academic and celebrate them and celebrate the less academic just as much and help them find their skills too. There are not short cuts other than investment in educational opportunities for all in a targeted way rather than some one size fits all nonsense.
If I were in charge I would be making sure any private schools that have a lot of SEND children are protected and state funded so that all children have the chance to succeed and become the best versions of themselves. I would also not be driving all talented self made people out of the country. It is a national self identity crisis we are experiencing and some of the goodie goodie two shoes on this thread are seriously deluded in their thinking and are doing the worst for the poor in society. Get a grip on your jealousy. The super rich elite has prospered all over the world in the last 20 years - it is NOT a UK only issue and push more of them away, we all suffer anyway so what good is that. Unless we all work with other countries and those super rich we won’t benefit.

@Juliagreeneyes I am not making those arguments.
And of course your child is suicidal you get medical help. The school can support children's mental health, but it is health services who provide access to health services.

It’s not malicious

Some of it is certainly malicious. See the increase in false FII and PP allegations following complaints and appeals. Also see the disdain some within LAs show towards parents of disabled DC and lies some tell.

Thank you so much. And thanks to @EHCPerhaps too.

My DS1 has actually had an EHCP since he was 4 years old, but the system has been absolutely horrendous to navigate in spite of this. After a terrible infant school experience, it took us 3 years to convince the LA that he needed to be in a special school. During that time he could either be home educated (at the cost of my job) or we pay for private school. This is why we entered the private system for both of our children in the first place. I think some posters just want to be nasty - they certainly don’t show any interest in understanding.

(As for feeling suicidal due to the utter clusterfuck the education system is currently in, in our family that was me. I’ve recently had two months off sick with severe depression. But I, and others like me, are just poshos buying their children an advantage.)

Usual accusations of jealousy.
Inequality has been widening at an alarming rate in the UK. We now have the widest inequality of the G20 countries. It is bad for people and bad for the country.
To characterise wanting to reduce inequality as jealousy, is beyond facile.

This is what the LA wants you to believe, but the legal threshold for an EHCP hasn’t changed. However, many have to appeal. Your friends were lied to, too sadly. And SENDIST certainly considers all evidence, and a diagnosis isn’t required for an EHCP.

@ICouldBeVioletSky Of course Labour are trying to improve things. Seems like you think the sum total of their education policy is to put 20% on private school fees. It isn't, it's just the sum total.of what you're interested in because it's the sum total of what affects you.

As @Juliagreeneyes seems to admit, the core problem is a degradation of state schools from 2010-2024, after huge improvements 1997-2010. Those dates aren't coincidental. State schools, where the vast majority of out future doctors and scientists and inventors and so on are still being educated, have had massively reduced funding for over a decade. If private schools are now being asked to take a 20% hit (which they don't actually have to pass on to parents, that's their choice - they still all get more than double the per capita funding of state schools) then excuse the lack of sympathy at privilege being very slightly eroded.

Labour cannot replicate the 1997-2010 funding boon in state education because it was predicated on huge economic success at the time! Remember it predates the financial crisis of 2008, if anything Gordon Brown and Co encouraged the huge City of London boom. Some of us remember studying eg Sciences or Medicine or Engineering and literally everyone at the time at top universities going into banking. That was a one in a life time huge gravy train that the Government then benefitted from. It is not coming back any time soon! Unless they invest massively in growth industries like tech and AI and specific engineering and put us as a country back at the forefront of growth we do not have enough cash to invest. Someone has to make a concrete decision that education has to come above other sectors and then tailor it accordingly. This lot have said none of that. We are a relatively small country and are only hope is a full on investment in our people and positioning ourselves to compete globally in the future.

@tortoise18 please share some tangible things Labour are doing to improve send provision, as I am genuinely interested. All I have heard is platitudes, and in some specific local examples see them further encouraging denial of send provision in the interest of balancing budgets.

more broadly all I have heard is free breakfast (which no one in education seems to actually rate as a priority), tinkering around the edges of ofsted, promises of more teachers (but not any indication where they will come from), a planned curriculum review (will hold judgment but not optimistic). There is NOTHING that even attempts to tackle the bigger issues in education.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it was still a conscious choice to put that money into education ahead of other sectors. "Education, education, education" was the 1997 campaign slogan (because, as echoed again now, the Tories had left schools in such a state.)

You do have a point about valuing and encouraging technical education alongside "academic" achievement. This feeds into the university sector too, which is - in a different, bloated way - in even more of a mess than the schools. How do we fix it all? Well, I wouldn't start from here, but VAT on private schools is quite a long way down the concern list.

My comment was about education policy in full, not SEND, but as far as I can see (and I'm no expert) the SEND system has been left in such a mess that they're still working out what to do... but it'll have to involve more than schools.