Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse”

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Whitehall ‘braced for private schools collapse’ due to fee rises

Worth reading the whole article, it’s not quite as alarmist as the headline suggests. But as you’d expect, gov sources are talking it all down while the ISC is ringing the alarm bell.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

I’d be quite surprised if some of the schools near us don't fold tbh. There will definitely be a contraction in the sector, I just hope those that hold on can remain a viable concern.

What time period construction are you referring to for both of these? Which were good quality?

The pre fab panelised post war emergency housing, the 4 storey walk up flats with external walkways and staircases smelling of urine, the tower blocks without gas central heating built and inhabited at a time when everyone else had it? Or the brick terraced houses with single glazed windows and dripping condensation until they were sold off?

I think you are reflecting with rose tinted glasses, thr majority of council housing was provided on large estates, some compensated for their high rise by including large areas of open space but thats all since been infilled / in thr process of. Council housing was not intended to provide anything beyond basic accommodation. Council housing often failed due to having large concentrations of people living in them who were not invested in the area and had been allocated a life there without freedom of choice. Thus why many of the tower blocks once sold to private owners became desirable. Private rent allows people to choose the exact location, the exact style / size of property to live in and to demand in return of their payment the service they would like to receive.

CatkinToadflax

I voted Labour in July because I wanted to restore public services and education provision and social cohesion. So as an alternative to 14 years of Tory pillaging. I was voting knowing full well that Labour had an VAT pledge against private schools.

I feel very let down about Labour’s lack of knowledge and interest in education overall not just around SEND issues, which affect me very directly.

I don’t regret voting Labour overall, but on this issue I regret that the government seems to b making laws via focus group without proper policy development checks and balances.

I assumed that all governments have ideas like this that play really well in focus groups. But I thought they’d run it through a few civil service analysts once in power, also do some impact assessments, then also realise the policy wouldn’t raise the money that they said it would. Plus realise that it would negatively impact some children very badly in both state and private schools.Then they’d wrap it up within a huge economic programme aimed at improving state schooling - which is desperately needed- and would quietly forget this misplaced, vindictive idea. But no.

One might consider that Labour should have provided some sort of cost - benefit analysis of the VAT on education proposal. What they actually did was provide a shit report by a biased author, that has been debunked. And still. Here we are. No proposals to improve the desperate predicament of state education - which is what the uk needs. . Labour are a joke. Except they’re not funny. Not funny at all.

People are too busy jeering at ‘rich people’ to see the wood for the trees.

Same here @EHCPerhaps I thought they would implement in a better and more considered manner than they have on this, and many other policies, and that they'd have some better ideas.

So far, they seem to be blundering about in a tearing hurry and doing no good I can see.

I expected to vote labour in the GE. I certainly spent a long time wanting the previous shower gone. The Blair/Brown government is the best government this country has had in my lifetime. It did more for education and schools than every other government combined. But I became disillusioned with the lack of vision of Starmer and his shadow cabinet and their politics of envy and voted otherwise (though not, and never, Tory). Their approach to this issue has been evidence-free: hubris, a lack of consultation, a failure to see the likely consequences, and the cowardice to hang tens of thousands of children out to dry just to appease the Corbynite wing of the party.

To follow on with what a PP said a new local secondary was being built and fell into difficulties, they took over an office block as a temporary school for a few years. They had to be bused elsewhere for PE and science.

I think it’s worth pointing out that the numbers of PS across the country varies greatly. I imagine a lot of posters are in the south.
There are very few private schools where I live. I only know about 2 of them and they are not the kind of school I would send my SEN child to. So they might be providing an alternative education in some parts of the country but not all.

My child's school has announced that it is no longer accepting 'rolling notice' from parents because of fears over VAT. Tough talk but, in the real world, if parents are forced to bail with little or no notice, they will.
The knife edge has been whether the 'proposed' legal challenge by the ISI could nullify the 20% increase, but it's gained no real traction. I can see why indy's are worried - for every child that leaves, the operational costs have to be met by the remaining parents/guardians - which will push the fees up even further year-on-year. That is a worrying prospect, even for those who can afford to pay. Add to this the increase in national insurance contributions and it's hard to see how smaller schools will ride it out.

Yes agreed. Talking of alternative schools ‘private schools’ includes everything from Steiner schools to specialist music or dance schools. All of these are subject to +20% on fees and none of these are replicated in the state sector. If their parents aren’t able to absorb the higher fees then that’s it for their DC

the 4 storey walk up flats with external walkways and staircases smelling of urine, the tower blocks without gas central heating built and inhabited at a time when everyone else had it?

That was my childhood, complete with a drunk asleep in his vomit and urine at the bottom of the stairwell I used to play in. SW15, whilst my single mum was a ‘bunny girl’ and croupier at night. People commenting here have no fu*king idea how shit the rose-tinted past they eulogise was.

’Envy’ not ‘jealousy’ -two entirely different emotions.

@Marchitectmummy Many of the brick built terraced houses and semi detached council houses were good quality. All houses were single glazed back then and many listed buildings still are. They cost more to heat, but heating and ventilation is the issue.

Don’t worry folks - Bridget does have a comprehensive plan to overhaul state education!

“Speaking before the [VAT] policy takes effect on Wednesday, Bridget Phillipson said she would be “the voice of pushy middle-class parents” who had been priced out of sending their children to private schools, and would “demand better from state schools”.”

Middle classes support VAT on private schools, says Labour

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c1e3c210-4b08-4f2a-961d-ad986e59293a?shareToken=b76c97c86711c0e02b5e523d408ffd37

Well that’s a relief then eh. SEN support, crumbling classrooms, teacher recruitment and retention, school readiness and behavioural issues and related classroom disruption all fixed in one fell swoop with Bridget doing some “pushy middle-class parent demanding.” Though one wonders where the very many pushy middle-class parents already in the state system have been going wrong.

@tortoise18 if this isn’t essentially the sum total of what Labour is doing why is they keep banging on about it and nothing else? As PP mentioned their only other policy noises so far have been more rearranging of deckchairs (eg vague possible curriculum changes, tweaks to Ofsted regime).

The addition of VAT should be - at the very most - an ancillary part of a big aspirational policy package to narrow the gap with independent schools by radically improving state education.

But six months in and nothing.

The inescapable conclusion is they lack the vision, the courage and the basic competence to tackle this, other than with an ideological smokescreen.

What have we got here from Bridget? PR to look cuddly - not very warm though - still talking in a slightly sneering way about 'pushy' and 'middle class'. That's what's wrong with their rhetoric even when they're trying to be appealing it is utterly flat and hits a wrong note.

Do you trust them? If I had kids in a 'pushy middle class' state school I'd be quite worried too.

Sorry, I should have said “But six months in and 14 years in opposition to prepare and nothing.”

I should think the state schools are delighted that Bridget will be “demanding better” of them. Sounds like that’s her whole plan then. “I demand better of you!” Who knows if she demands better for SEN pupils too. Good grief.

I think Bridget has got herself in a bit of a muddle about whether being “pushy” and “middle-class” is a good thing or not, and doesn’t understand her own messaging as a result.

Can we look forward to a few photo ops in the new year with Bridget visiting state schools saying she's 'demanding more' for those pushy middle classes? We live in hope!

On further reflection, I don’t think we should underestimate the momentousness of Bridget’s announcement yesterday.

It seems that states schools are failing because they (teachers/SLT/other staff/governors presumably) just haven’t been trying hard enough!!

And this will now be remedied by them complying with Bridget’s “demands”!!!

All hail St Bridget, Saviour of State Education.

👏

👏

👏

Bridget has realised there won’t be tons of cash coming from the VAT and the opposite will be the case as all the savvy rich prepaid way before Labour even got in in June and the other lot with kids with SEND cannot pay up and will be withdrawing her kids. So she is banking on the pushy middle class lot moving house and filling the stamp duty coffers in the spring instead!

OH Bridget I just can’t wait for those photo ops it’s going to look so good. You’re just what the middle class have needed your elbows sharpened and ready for action or not

Even if what Bridget Phillipson said is true, does that mean that we should expect to accept that children in the later years of secondary are written off whilst we wait for schools to improve, as it won’t be in time for them? We had to pull both DC out of our local catchment school, due to it falling them pastorally and academically, and the school has since been graded as inadequate in all areas by Ofsted. There are no other school spaces available locally and so our options are to home educate or send them private.

Yes, if you’re middle class and your local school is great or even just okay, and/or your children are younger, you might suppport this policy but surely not if it means accepting that your child will have no opportunity to receive a passable education themselves - and that they are just the unlucky ones?

I think the schools will close in 3-5 years.

Once people are through the GCSEs or whatever.

Which ones? Large schools with weather the storm. Smaller schools are more vulnerable and they don’t do a phased fizzle out. The numbers drop too low and they close at the end of that term, regardless of where students are in GCSEs or Alevels.

Exactly. She is truly thick.