VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

Some mothers work purely to pay school fees, others don't work or others work to pay for lots of other things too. Just as all kinds of parents who differ from each other pay school fees, it is the same as to working or not.

Tomorrow 5 Sept the House of Lords is looking at the school fees issue:

"On 5 September 2024 the House of Lords is scheduled to debate the following motion:
Lord Lexden (Conservative) to move that this House takes note of the contribution of independent schools, and any potential effects that changes to the VAT exemption for independent school fees could have." See paper here https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/independent-schools-proposed-vat-changes/

The consultation on the VAT issue is open until 15 September.

“This is why I don't understand many of your arguments. They cancel each other out.

Or at least cancel out a lot of the arguments of people justifying why private schools are not a luxury.”

@pintofsnakebite - I think most of us who have managed to get our children into outstanding state schools and are happy with them and do not have to pay for private schools, really value that privilege.

I have a problem with the notion of luxury and education. Education is a social good and investment in the future of society. The fact all children are entitled to a free education is a privilege which we did not have hundreds of years ago. It should be respected and valued and not commoditised nor used as a political tool and gimmick.

The fact all children are entitled to a free education is a privilege which we did not have hundreds of years ago. It should be respected and valued and not commoditised nor used as a political tool and gimmick.

I couldn't agree more.

I absolutely respect and value my privilege.

I merely think other people should do the same and, if they choose to buy additional privilege, pay tax accordingly.

@pintofsnakebite "I absolutely respect and value my privilege.

I merely think other people should do the same and, if they choose to buy additional privilege, pay tax accordingly."

Absolutely. Exactly this.

I have a problem with the notion of luxury and education. Education is a social good and investment in the future of society. The fact all children are entitled to a free education is a privilege which we did not have hundreds of years ago. It should be respected and valued and not commoditised nor used as a political tool and gimmick.

They're not using free education as a tool or gimmick. They're actually raising more money to help pay for free education.

The point is majority who support this policy won’t care. All they want is to take away from others what they can’t have.

My children only went into the private sector because the state schools available to us were completely unable to provide an education for my disabled child. Our younger one has just gone into Y12 and it is entirely our choice to stick with private education for sixth form and pay the VAT. However without my mum’s help we couldn’t do it. I do know a few families who are leaving private schools due to VAT, and if we were further down the school then we would have had to leave as well.

If the government was going to raise enough money through private school VAT to actually make a significant difference to the state sector, then I think I’d find the whole situation a lot less frustrating. Even by their own calculations, the most they will raise is a tiny fraction of the total sum needed. They don’t appear to have any plans for how to raise the rest of it. There don’t seem to be any plans at all to improve provision for students with SEN. The state ‘education’ proposed for my disabled child was completely unacceptable. I am not sure why private school parents are expected to provide the only source of income to minimally improve the state sector.

”I merely think other people should do the same and, if they choose to buy additional privilege, pay tax accordingly."

So private health care will be next then? What about tutoring?

Who decides what buying additional privilege means? Those in power?

Should I stop buying multivitamins and avocados and mangoes for my DCs? It great for the environment really. Who is going to decide?

That was meant to say avocados and mangoes have too many airmiles. What a luxury!

Those who pay school fees are more likely than not to be in the top 10% for income (over £67k) and that group is currently paying the highest tax burden in 70 years so they already DO pay for the privilege in the sense of funding state schools vastly more than most people who are tax payers with children at state schools do and in my view instead of 20% VAT should be given a £7k voucher from the state per child per year with a thank you card for the income tax they already pay and a right to use the 7k voucher in private schools.

It is clearly a privilege to work full time and make as much money for everyone as you can @xenia. You get status and class and get to be a snob. That is a luxury.

It is clearly a privilege to work full time and make as much money for everyone as you can @xenia. You get status and class and get to be a snob. That is a luxury.

So, you have no objections to luxury cars, large houses, haute couture, high end watches etc., because they are taxed (VAT/stamp duty) in the same way as other ‘lesser’ products?

Correct?

Spot on.

Envy. It oozes from many of the posters.

I think it more like an Oxford Union debate. Those who did not sell out to the private sector and went into academia/civil service etc are bitter about their choices and think the bankers have to pay more! So pay up you capitalist fuckers, who cares about the actual kids and implications for the country as a whole.

No I genuinely don't.

If you've worked hard and can afford it, knock yourselves out.

I think cars should pay tax according to fuel consumption etc through road raz and fuel duty. I agree with higher stamp duty on more expensive homes and luxury goods should be subject to VAT.

But if you can afford them, then enjoy.

If I needed to pay for a private education on top of paying my taxes for my children to be happy and successful, I'd be envious of those who don't!!

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Or do you think that does not apply in state schools?

uninvolved parents always hamper their children’s prospects. it has nothing to do with being rich or poor.

Unfortunately a lot of people won't "knock themselves out" by paying the VAT and that's why, economically, in the long run, it won't work.

These parents, rich or poor, are involved. The point is that ex-private school parents are more likely to agitate for what they perceive to be beneficial to their children, not for what might be best for the entire school, the entire school system, or for all children. That's a much more efficient use of their time and resources from the standpoint of educating their children. And they're likely to get some of what they want, to the detriment of those children with uninvolved parents who have no such advocates.

There are obviously conflicting views on this and arguing over something that hasn't happened yet is futile.

Maybe we can have a thread reunion in 5 years to see what happened.

There is another thread on here about how many people actually know someone who is moving to state as a result and hardly anyone does.

Also why even have VAT if having it means some people won't be able to afford something they otherwise would?

The 'I could afford it now I can't' exists for every product and service.

10 years ago school fees were much lower and I imagine many parents would have been priced out. I didn't see petitions then.

I think at this point, any private school parent who moves their children to state, or anyone who would otherwise have used private, will be so sick of being berated and would probably feel somewhat bitter, why would they want to do anything other than fight for their own child? These threads repeatedly say how selfish private school parents are so why would you expect anything else?

When we get to grammar stage, I won't be giving up my job because I've worked hard for this career and think it's important to set an example to my DDs, but I might reduce to 4 days - or more likely we'll use the money for pension, extra curricular activities, tutoring, foreign holidays etc. I don't have time to get involved in the PTA so I'm certainly not going to be at the school doing anything like that.

I’m Indian. I can confirm most Indian parents of all religions do this as standard, private or state, rich or poor. I think if 1st gen migrants can manage to push for their kids families who’ve been here longer certainly should be able to.
This kind of pushing is usually driven by well educated mums (whether they’re working or not) who understand the importance of early intervention in education. i don’t know a single Indian parent who doesn’t send kids to tutition from 5 or 6 (often before they have problems), or insists on 10-20 mins of homework per day.