VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

@EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime no probs babe x x

Its a total myth that people will flounce and leave if their 500k salary is reduced to £450k 😂 i know tons of extremely high earners none of whom are moving to Bahrain right now to take advantage of the super dooper wages.
Actually, quite a few mega high earners i know currently would actually like to pay more into the pot as they want to see public services improve and can afford to pay more.
Im one. Stupid stuff like cutting NI twice last year made my family 'better off' when I'd have preferred that money to go into the government pot so that the NHS and our schools weren't struggling quite so much!

No, hysterics here.

Just a calm focus.

I will say this - some of these posts have been most illuminating, as they demonstrate that some are completely out of touch with how the world operates - specifically politics and finance. Others have little to no commercial acumen - and a rather child-like grasp of economic reality.

In summary - capital will take flight, and talent will flee. The tax base will shrink, but you will be content because there will be ‘greater equality’. It’s all yours - you are welcome to it.

Meanwhile, I’m going for a run. Laters.

The diversity a state education gives you is often diversity of ideas.

It's not about ethnic diversity or any other kind.

Private schools select people who believe in private schools, who want their children to be taken out of mainstream offering, and who believe in buying what they want. It's a sense that your privilege and entitlement is entirely earned and justified because you are surrounded by people who tell you that it is.

This is why you can't cope with all the mean people who think differently. It's not a good luck.

Noone on these threads ever say 'it doesn't bother me I inherited the money, or my parents pay my children's fees' which is the case for many of my friends.

When you take out a mortgage, you are told to make sure you can afford rises in interest rates or a sudden loss of income and it is your responsibility if you can't. I can't believe any of you gambled on your children's education like this.

Cry me a river OP

My children will benefit from a parent who is around more to take them to extra curricular activities and tutoring

“Its a total myth that people will flounce and leave if their 500k salary is reduced to £450k 😂 i know tons of extremely high earners none of whom are moving to Bahrain right now to take advantage of the super dooper wages.
Actually, quite a few mega high earners i know currently would actually like to pay more into the pot as they want to see public services improve and can afford to pay more.
Im one. Stupid stuff like cutting NI twice last year made my family 'better off' when I'd have preferred that money to go into the government pot so that the NHS and our schools weren't struggling quite so much!”

@Thatmissingsock - firstly, last time the additional tax rate went from 45-50% we actually lost money. Secondly, people have always been able to volunteer extra tax and the HMRC accounts show virtually zilch in contributions.
All rich people I personally know and I happen to know many from either Cambridge or going to private school for 2 years whilst my parents were diplomats abroad or from work, each and every one of them contributes very substantially via charitable donations in cash and time as well.

I mean our secondary is pretty great. 15 years ago was in requires improvement measures but a combo of enforced leadership change and a degree of demographic change - some of whom are parents like us who had been priced out of the private schools we'd expected to send our kids to - has transformed it. It's never going to rival the sélectives for results as it has a big SEN intake, but the results are improving year on year, the pastoral care is great and it's a lovely community - no doubt helped by a higher proportion of parents who are committed and supportive (and supportive financially as well as in other ways.)

Would a small proportion of 7% make a huge difference at a national level? Doubt it. But those areas and cases are probably more likely have pockets of concentration and could make a difference to an individual school like ours where a small increase can tip the balance.

@EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime - you seem to spend a lot of time on MN stirring up trouble, trying to generate unease with regard to the present government. It looks as if it is going to be a nice day. Can I suggest you go out and get a bit of fresh air.

Hate is being called a Tory twat and Tory scum for sending my child to indy school.
Hate is being told I serve no value to society unless I work.
In light of messages such as these do you really think that incentiveses anyone?

You see @EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime you can't just accept people disagree

They are completely out of touch with how the world operates - specifically politics and finance. Others have little to no commercial acumen - and a rather child-like grasp of economic reality.

Maybe we just have a slightly more nuanced view of the world.

Next you'll be calling us 'sad' or 'very bad people'

These debates on MN are just one set of middle class parents arguing with another.

It changes absolutely nothing for truly deprived kids and why they are in that situation.

This summer my DC was asked by school to attend holiday club for £25 in a local very deprived area and every evening, they come home with lovely veg and food box to prepare at home. The schools locally have been trying their very hardest to get those on benefits and their DC into those holiday clubs. Take up has been disappointed low and lots of working middle class parents attended instead. That is where the problem lies in this society.
Lefty idealists spouting absolute nonsense and coming up with policies like VAT on private schools which will actually make us less educated and poorer as a country.

I work in school governance across 5 schools. The governors are actually largely made up of working people. They have jobs like senior accountant, pilot, lawyer, marketing, GP, HR manger, police officers and people doing MBAs and wanting to try out a different type of board. I also have a restaurant owner, a yoga teacher and very often teachers at private school will govern at a nearby state. Some recently retired people and the occasional sahm.

They bring their skills to the table for greater good for society and the children at that school. Some dont have children at all, others don't have school age children. It's the uks biggest volunteer workforce.

Now this is really total nonsense. What does 'diversity of ideas' mean in plain English? I haven't grilled other private school parents on why their kids are there but I can imagine a range of reasons - poor personal experience of state schools, living in the catchment area of a poorly performing state school (as private has no catchment so many kids live further out of town so their local state options will hugely vary), ideological belief in private, wraparound (yes my local state wraparound is very limited, friends complain about it), sporting facilities and so on. State parents either think their state option is fine, ideologically don't agree with private, can't afford private or aren't interested in their kid's education. Arguably the private parents have greater diversity in their reasons for choosing private if that's what you mean by 'diversity of ideas'.

Nice to see you agree that state is no more diverse on any other measures of diversity.

but it isn't a group of middle class parents arguing with each other. It is people responding to different trolls who come onto MN to influence opinion and stir up trouble.

I do hope that every poster who has told me: I can afford the rise or why didn't I plan for this or that tax benefits everyone, chooses to voluntarily pay more tax to HMRC through the scheme to do that? Because if not you are hypocrites. If you all register to pay 3K more tax per year from January then come back to me and I will be happy to the discuss the issue further.

I mean, what do you think I would do to improve things if I sent my DS back to state? I work full time and get involved in very little to do with the school. In fact the mums who get the most involved are the ones who don't work. All the mums I know through DS private school work full time.

I moved DS because his state primary class was chaotic and he quite literally hasn't learned anything in 2 years. And they missed the fact he had dyslexia. DDs class at the same school is lovely and so she is still there.

Sorry for doing the best for my child. Well I'm not, but it's clear that MN thinks my son and I are some kind of pariah to society for making the choice we did. Trust me DS's class wasn't going to improve if I had kept him there.

I chose to live in a rural area long before Labour introduced this tax policy. If I move to the nearest town (where my oldest DC attends state school) it would cost an addutional 150k to buy the same size house at least so there is no point from a financial point of view.

The chose to stay in my present job comment shows how little you know about my circumstances because (1) I did move job and (2) go full time several years ago to make sure that we had enough to cover the VAT. I have said numerous times on these threads that we baked VAT into these figures since 2019 BUT what we didn’t bake in is all our other household costs increasing so much.

Your comments about good state schools shows how little you understand about education. A school can be “outstanding” and still fail to meet a pupils needs. I went to such a school and was such a pupil. There are no suitable state alternatives for my youngest DC. You need to understand that large schools are hell on earth for some kids.

It is not disingenuous to say that I have saved the taxpayer £100k. It’s a hard fact, just one that you don’t want to listen to because it contradicts the tax break lie.

I actually have never said on this thread or others that I will be removing my DC from private school. I won’t be until sixth form. Only two years earlier than planned. But I am very much looking forward to paying less tax. Like others have commented on this thread, this policy and the vile comments that it has encouraged about me and my family mean that I don’t want to contribute a penny more than I have to. It’s a devisive policy designed to stir up hatred, just like the WFA cut for “rich” pensioners. The Labour Party may think they are morally superior to the Tories but they are not.

Everyone does what is best for their child.

That's why governments take responsibility for public goods that benefit society as a whole.

Noone is saying you shouldn't personally do what is best for your child. But in public policy, your child is not the only one that matters.

It's literally the point of government.

@Dibblydoodahdah you haven't saved the state £100,000 any more than somebody homeschooling or indeed somebody that doesn't have children...

The point you and others seem to be (deliberately?) missing about school is that it performs a function in wider society above and beyond the few years your child(ren) spends in the system.

The whole point of this thread is that the VAT policy isn’t going got benefit society as a whole. It’s going to cost society as a whole.

@Dibblydoodahdah most of my single parent mum friends work full time to house, feed and clothe their children
Are you not sending your daughters to private school to ensure they have a fulfilling, well paid, successful career? Would you want them to work just to pay their kids school fees?
Such a bizarre attitude

Read my comments very carefully. The £100k point relates to the false “tax break” argument. It shows what a lot of crap it is. I have never made out that I am superior by saving the taxpayer that money, I have pointed out that I haven’t cost the taxpayer money despite Labour trying to make out that I have. Why can’t you understand that point or why it has made parents like me so angry?

The diversity question is interesting. (forgive me if I am fed up of the VAT issue-there surely can't be any kore to say about it!)

In the area where I live, my own white state educated children would certainly have mixed with a more ethnically and nationally diverse peer group at any of the local private schools because the lack of catchment areas means that many children have long commutes to school from more ethnically mixed areas, and there are a lot of overseas boarders. However, they would have been practically indistinguishable socially, financially and culturally. That was not the case at state school.

From Wiki - these two points jumped out!

The ASI formed the primary intellectual force behind the privatisation of state-owned industries during the premiership of Margaret Thatcher.

The ASI is rated as one of the least transparent think tanks in the United Kingdom in relation to funding and has been shown to receive funding from the tobacco industry.