VAT on school fees (you have to read this!)

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Government’s private schools VAT raid ‘could cost taxpayer £1.8bn’

Parents who are forced out of sector are likely to work less or even quit jobs, according to think tank research.

Adam Smith Institute.

I love the canard trotted out by a number of posters - their argument being, you should willingly pay increasingly high taxes because its for the greater good etc.
I suspect it’s predominantly envy masquerading as a desire to improve public services. They probably have skin in the game - and are public sector employees, or receive some form of state support.

It would be amusing if it was not so tragic.

Now, that’s ENTITLEMENT.

All,this talk of “hate” is worrying. I was a teacher for 30+ years , in both state and independent schools, 2 of my children went to independent school, two state. One of my DC works in an independent school, one in a state school - who am I supposed to hate? As far as I’m concerned let’s have more equality. We alll want the best for our kids. If this rise in VAT means a few women give up jobs they don’t like to spend more time with their families, then great, if a few more less well endowed private schools fail, then bring them into the state sector, employ those teachers, make something positive of it. The Tories have underfunded state education for years and it’s shocking that teachers have to buy pencils or glue sticks - let’s campaign for proper funding for our schools so all kids get the education that they need.

@twistyizzy because it would also benefit your own children perhaps?

Question please.

Labours promise to recruit and retain 6,500 new state school teachers.

Your honest view please.

@gerispringer - I have a massive pet hate of the glue stick argument, I am afraid. My brother’s kids go to outstanding excellently funded state schools in Zurich - funding is akin to the cheaper private schools in U.K.. Guess who buys and organises the full pencil cases? The parents. This constant pushing of parental responsibilities onto teachers and schools and taking responsibility and agency away from people in this country is why we are in such a mess in the first place.

@EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime and that mentality is exactly the problem.

Your family are not distinct from society, however much you try and believe yourself better.

Everyone depends on a healthy. Even those in ivory towers.

I wonder if you were privately educated? If so the above point seems to be one they forgot to impart ...

*healthy society.

Exactly. It’s disgusting. My dh is French and private schools get the state contribution allocated them and parents pay fees on top of that amount meaning that unless very elite, private schooling costs a few thousand a year.

Gaslighting?

Yes, gaslighting.

You make all the fault rest with others, as opposed to accepting ownership that you may be part of the problem. You are clearly an advocate for Labours tax ‘reforms’ and yet you are unwilling to accept that there will be consequences.

araminta the glue stick point is just a way to highlight the underfunding - no photocopying, no teaching assistant available, no one to cover staff absence , no SEN provision, urgent repairs to the building not being done- these are areas where when underfunding becomes more obvious and cannot be solved by parents supplying a pencil case.

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime
6,500 teachers is a reasonable target and we shouldn’t sneer at this. Maybe if teachers feel more valued both financially and with improved working conditions retention is achievable. I certainly felt more valued when I worked in a prestigious independent school ( more money, smaller classes, longer holidays).

Does this not make you question why such a small pool of earners are earming such high salaries, while the vast majority of earners have such poor salaries that they pay very little tax?

Wage inequality in the UK is one of our biggest issues. Nobody earning £500k a year is working over 10 times harder than the nurse earning 36k, or the junior doc on £45k, or one of the huge numbers of people in the UK working in white collar jobs but being paid only a very little more than the minium wage now.

Outside London salaries have been stagnant for twenty years whilst in that time house prices, and inflation, habe continued to drive down the value of most people's earnings. Miraculously, those high earners at the top have often outpaced inflation while everybody else has had below-inflation pay increases which are effectively paycuts.

So you'll excuse me if im not awash with sympathy for the poor high earners having to find a bit more. They only contribute 'so much' because they are obscenely, obscenely overpaid.

@EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime have you considered a career as a stand-up comedian?

Ah, but they are not overpaid according to S&D dynamics - there is global demand for particular talent, and you have made a subjective decision about what someone should be paid. You’ve signed up for capitalism, well here it is. If you prefer socialism, well, there are some states I can think of.

Let me put it this way - a neurosurgeon earning 500k let’s say versus a nurse. Barriers to entry, length of study, risks.

The ‘market’ has dictated the value - but perhaps you know better.

It doesn’t pay enough.

“So you'll excuse me if im not awash with sympathy for the poor high earners having to find a bit more. They only contribute 'so much' because they are obscenely, obscenely overpaid.”

I agree in principle but how is it going to help if even 100k of these people piss off to the Middle East and eg Switzerland or Singapore etc etc - it’s a global phenomenon the wage inequality across developed countries. How exactly are you going to stop them practising eg corporate law in Bahrain and paying less, especially as many of them are just high earners initially without assets to back them up. Those countries are trying actively to poach them, they also have services they want paid for.

@EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime what about the canard trotted out by many posters in these threads that anyone supporting this policy is simply guilty of envy? And now gaslighting?

Please, do tell me how I may make a valid point without being accused of either.

Ok, so you want me help you formulate an argument to support your POV?

Erm, sorry I can’t help you love.

Let me respond to other posters now please.

You won't be able to because your arguing with Schrodinger's Tory. One who simultaneous contributes so much that their tax will be sorely missed whilst at the same time thinking £4-5k a year should lead them to make fundamentally different life choices. One side must be being exaggerated otherwise it doesn't make sense.

LOL, no.

The 4-5k is largely irrelevant - although to borrow your fondness for the cliche - its probably the straw that did for the ungulate’s spine.

It’s the hostile environment, and the direction of travel that's key for me. I cannot speak for others, of course.

The whole 'state schools are more diverse' argument is bogus. We live in a naice middle class area and my kids have state and privately educated friends from the local area. Both groups are overwhelmingly middle class and have highly educated parents - so neither is socioeconomically diverse - and the private school wins on ethnic diversity.
We choose private school because Scottish state educational outcomes are poor and whilst the local state school has a good reputation it's overcrowded and in a run down building. I'd rather work in a nice modern building than an overcrowded old one - why is it so wrong to choose a nicer school for my kids?

Tut tut.

How dare you exercise free will, you over-privileged, tax-dodging, stuck-up, (decent parent), you!

Incoming!

😎

This 'why does everyone hate us' and 'hostile environment' is also largely misplaced.

People are disagreeing with you, that's all. People are suggesting something you don't like. That's not hate.

On the other hand, the OP has accused people of mere envy, gaslighting, suggested people need therapy, or they must be on benefits.

Others have said they don't want to discuss it with anyone who doesn't pay school school fees yet apparently it's only suspected public sector who can't be rational because they 'have skin in the game'

You're arguments don't stack up on anything other than self-interest, and are contradictory. Rather than discuss it, some of you are becoming ever more hysterical.