STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

"Sorry Isenhart, I had a similar experience on Mothering.com. I was ganged up against and talked about in the third person; it's not pleasant atall. (I won't be going back to mothering.com because it's not the kind of envioronment I like. And the conversation is terribly boring too)"

Sounds like you like a stimulating environment where you are directly engaged. So do I.

"I still don't understand your posts tho' Isenhart -I am not an objective killer- what a strange thing to say."

Perhaps. I'd say that you have killed living things for your daily sustenance and by accident over the course of your life. I really don't see anyway around that. A human being as he/she stands in reality is at the top of the food chain as a matter of fact.

"It also has no correllation or relevence as to whether you are an anthroposophist- not signed up to the anthro society or attending first class."

I think that people who are members of the Anthroposophical Society and who attend First Class do generally regard themselves as anthroposophists and I would accord them that regard as well.

"What then is your definition of an anthroposophist?"

I've never had one.

"Perhaps you can start there."

Perhaps I can.

"Do you believe in spiritualality as a science?"

I believe in spirituality as an inner quality or qualities of being. If you're asking if I believe there is a methodology to explore this aspect of yes, what I do believe exists-namely spirit-then I would say there are several.

"Knitting as a way of life..."

I've never had much use for knitters myself.

"Isenhart - Despite a six year involvement with Steiner education I simply do not understand many of your posts and that is really frustrating."

Losing your will to live, I think is how you put it.

"So Northern is 'objectively' a killer and you are 'objectively' an anthroposophist.
How does that work?"

Or doesn't work, as the case may be: northernrefugee39 has apparently never considered itself to be a killer. I have never considered myself to be an anthroposophist, either.

"What does 'First Class' mean here?"

It doesn't mean anything to me which was my only point; however, I'm not sure that Pete hasn't misinformed the list regarding it's nature. My understanding is that it is a class that anyone can join once they have been a member of the Anthroposophical Society for two years.

"I consider myself essentially to be a human being and I have feelings just like you do. I do not appreciate being called names, being spoken of in the third person, or the repeated insinuation that I am not a human being."

Then I suggest you start acting like one. Drop the disturbed little games you're famous for and apparently think are very clever, and talk to other people the way most humans talk to each other. I think you can see it isn't just me you come across to this way - these people don't know you the way I do, and they are telling you pretty clearly that they cannot make sense out of anything you say. If that's really the way you want it, then by all means go right on with your fatuous nonsense, but then don't whine your feelings are hurt when people say they can't relate to you.

"I consider myself essentially to be a human being and I have feelings just like you do. I do not appreciate being called names, being spoken of in the third person, or the repeated insinuation that I am not a human being."

"Then I suggest you start acting like one."

Do you suggest yourself as a role model, Diana?

"Drop the disturbed little games you're famous for and apparently think are very clever, and talk to other people the way most humans talk to each other. I think you can see it isn't just me you come across to this way - these people don't know you the way I do, and they are telling you pretty clearly that they cannot make sense out of anything you say."

That's true, Diana, you don't know me at all.

"If that's really the way you want it, then by all means go right on with your fatuous nonsense, but then don't whine your feelings are hurt when people say they can't relate to you."

Thanks for the permission to speak freely,
but I didn't say my feelings were hurt. I was asked why I didn't answer a question and I answered I didn't appreciate the climate here, which you, my dear, are famous for fostering.

"It doesn't mean anything to me which was my only point; however, I'm not sure that Pete hasn't misinformed the list regarding it's nature. My understanding is that it is a class that anyone can join once they have been a member of the Anthroposophical Society for two years."

Your understanding may be wrong, Isenhart7.

Here are some descriptions.
More

"Your understanding may be wrong, Isenhart7."

Yeah, Pete you're right-they're not going to let just anyone in-you for instance would not be allowed-unless, of course, you saw the error of your ways, because you would not be considered to demonstrate anthroposophical work.

Kinda reminds me of the Waldorf Survivors group in that they are self-selecting. But see, I'd let me in to the Survivors Group just to hear my story and I'd let you in to First Class just because you're such a piece of work.

Thank you Pete I do like being woken up to the true meaning of the waldorf/steiner movement. Mustn't wake us up too quickly before we're ready

Isenhart, Is being on mumsnet part of your special' work'? You're not winning any of us over, not very first class, more like third. Looks like you've got a little tangled up in your own silk rainbow scarf.....

"Kinda reminds me of the Waldorf Survivors group in that they are self-selecting. But see, I'd let me in to the Survivors Group"

I'm one of the moderators of the survivors group, and I've heard your story. Believe me, the survivors group doesn't need to hear it, too. They're there to recover from dealings with twisted people like you, not suffer more of it. Don't apply again.

"Isenhart, Is being on mumsnet part of your special' work'?

No.

"You're not winning any of us over, not very first class, more like third."

You mean steerage? Could be, I've never been adverse to substandard classes, myself. How about you?

"Looks like you've got a little tangled up in your own silk rainbow scarf....."

Well, sounds a step up to me from a tainbow felted bag of misery.

On the other hand, PeteK, where are all these people that have been rejected from First Class membership?

When I applied to the secret upper eschelon of the Waldorf Critics Group I was rejected so now I can never be trotted out as "An American fellow Survivor (see Further Information page: Waldorf-Anthroposophy-Steiner-Survivors-Only) formerly quite heavily involved with Anthroposophy to kindly offer (my) observations and recollections" which is again, just too bad, because I'm certain that Diana has never heard my story as I've never told it.

Isenhart - your refer to a tainbow felted bag of misery.
I can only conclude you are connected to Eva/TheBee in some way as that was a little dig I made at him many moons ago.....

From poster MadamePomfrey on mothering.com:

Waldorf joke from my husband:

How many Waldorf moms does it take to open a can of biodynamically grown chick peas?

Three:
~one to open the can with her hand-carved maple-handled, hammered-steel bladed can opener (imported from Germany, of course);
~ one to strum the harp while debating the value of chick peas in the spiritual incarnation of the child's three-fold nature - or perhaps just the gastric digestion of the child's three-part lunch!
~ and a third to welcome the peas by singing a little, pentatonic, chick pea song.

Diana - I think I love you

"Isenhart - your refer to a tainbow felted bag of misery."

Should have been "rainbow" mea culpa!

By barking on Thu 01-May-08 18:41:24

Oh sorry Pete wasn't saying 'chips' to you - I was saying it to the felted bag of misery before you.

By northernrefugee39 on Thu 01-May-08 19:43:46

Barking rainbow felted bag surely....

"I can only conclude you are connected to Eva/TheBee in some way as that was a little dig I made at him many moons ago....."

This would be a false conclusion.

Isenhart - the climate on this thread is typical of mumsnet. It has nothing to do with Diana, although she fits right in. On mumsnet, people don't have time for nonsense, riddles, mind games. They speak plainly and are answered plainly - sometimes the answers hurt, usually they're helpful, often they're extremely funny.

And if you simply cut and paste that post and follow it with a cryptic little message of your own I shall scream so loudly you will hear me all the way across the Atlantic.

"Isenhart - the climate on this thread is typical of mumsnet. It has nothing to do with Diana, although she fits right in. On mumsnet, people don't have time for nonsense, riddles, mind games. They speak plainly and are answered plainly - sometimes the answers hurt, usually they're helpful, often they're extremely funny."

Good for them, good for Diana, and good for you, Janni. Once again-carry on! We all do lead such busy lives but no one's stopping you from speaking plainly, in a hurtful, helpful, or extremely funny way.

"And if you simply cut and paste that post and follow it with a cryptic little message of your own I shall scream so loudly you will hear me all the way across the Atlantic."

It is a gorgeous day hear so I shall open all my windows.

Barking - wonder how long 'MonsieurPomfrey' will stick around, unless he is of the (tie)-dyed in the wool, be-sandalled and heavily bearded variety of Steiner male ...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Good for them, good for Diana, and good for you, Janni. Once again-carry on! We all do lead such busy lives but no one's stopping you from speaking plainly, in a hurtful, helpful, or extremely funny way.

It is a gorgeous day hear so I shall open all my windows.

"Yeah, Pete you're right-they're not going to let just anyone in-you for instance would not be allowed-unless, of course, you saw the error of your ways, because you would not be considered to demonstrate anthroposophical work."

Actually, there was a time when I probably could have gotten in. The difference, I suppose, is that I would never want to. In actuality, Anthroposophists are not doing Anthroposophical work anymore. Maybe they should listen to me and reconsider the error of their ways.

"Kinda reminds me of the Waldorf Survivors group in that they are self-selecting. But see, I'd let me in to the Survivors Group just to hear my story and I'd let you in to First Class just because you're such a piece of work."

Waldorf Survivors is very serious stuff. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't fit in. On the other hand, the First Class is warmed-over Steiner nonsense... I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fit in.

"On the other hand, PeteK, where are all these people that have been rejected from First Class membership?"

I don't know? Do they advertise that they were rejected?

"When I applied to the secret upper eschelon of the Waldorf Critics Group I was rejected so now I can never be trotted out as "An American fellow Survivor (see Further Information page: Waldorf-Anthroposophy-Steiner-Survivors-Only) formerly quite heavily involved with Anthroposophy to kindly offer (my) observations and recollections" which is again, just too bad, because I'm certain that Diana has never heard my story as I've never told it."

Yeah... The Waldorf Survivors group might insist on some credibility for membership. I don't think the First Class has any such requirement.

Barking - now you're messing with my mind

Hang in there Janni, Isenhart is recharging her spiritual batteries. She uses, I guess you would call a slightly Beuys like chamber, where she covers herself in bee's breastmilk and gnome gizzum while drinking the tears of forgotten steiner children, ready to fight another day.

Pete: 'Yeah... The Waldorf Survivors group might insist on some credibility for membership. I don't think the First Class has any such requirement.'
Pete - Now that's what I call first class

hi,just wondering how much time at school does a kid spend at school, when attending a waldorf school? is it like in germany, that there are no lessons after lunch most of the days?

Barking I do miss your Steiner input when you're not here...... I was always quite intrigued by Joseph Beuys, went right off him when I learned he was an anthro though....

catepilarr here they start with half days, ending before lunch until they're about 8/9, then they start one full day, gradually building up to complete full days all week when they're 12/13'ish. Our 11 yr old was still half day on Friday when we pulled her out.
It's one of the reasons that it's so hard to have a job when you're kids are at Steiner, along with all the endless fundraising and cleaning, gardening etc you're expected to do. But of course they're fee paying schools ( the one ours were at was means tested though) so they also expect your dosh. Not quite joined up thinking that.
Although I always loved the extra time with the children to be honest, it was a bonus for us, the half days, but hard to fit work in, tiring...

For Monsieur Pomfrey, some useful articles on mothering.com

"The Necessity of Marriage Maintenance,
Surfing With Daddy: A Mother Surrenders,
Where, Oh Where, Has our Sex Life Gone?,
Putting the Naked Back in Marriage"

From Mothering
"Mommy and Me Meditations

I am dashing barefoot through a dew-filled mountainside....
..Oh, the sweet smell of apple juice mixed with dirty diapers?not exactly the perfect compliment to lotus position, but nonetheless the way I start my day."

OOhh why didn't I think of one of these

"Birth Altar

Get your home ready for the new baby by preparing a simple altar as a powerful symbol for your birth. Choose a place on a dresser, a windowsill, or a low table. Cover the area with a beautiful cloth or leave it bare. Add some candles and incense. Look for some interesting rocks when you go for a walk. Maybe you have some seashells you?ve collected in the past.

Select items that make you feel good and strong. Or choose objects that are meaningful to you in a religious or spiritual way. Include a small fountain, photos of beloved ancestors and inspirational sayings, if you like. Think of your altar as the place to put all of the symbolic objects that add to your confidence and feelings of strength as a birthing woman."