STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

"Apparently, according to a discussion site in the US, one of their rules is not to mention it's name on other discussion boards. People get alerts from the moderator about it apparently. They watch these discussions, and then try and guess who is who.
Strange.
Is it legal to do that?"

I suppose it's legal to ask you anything they feel like asking you, but obviously they can't enforce it, and no, their goofy "user agreement" holds no legal weight of any sort, I would guess. There are laws about what you can post and what a site can require or not require, but they're things like not publishing recipes for making bombs or making threats against people. Quite clearly, there aren't laws - or legal ways to enforce rules - about things like "not being adversarial" when you write on an Internet message board, or "not writing on other message boards to talk about this one." They can try to tell you what to do, but only spineless ninnies believe any of it is for real.

I personally find it deeply offensive - it's paternalistic and condescending to women. They have absolutely no right to even attempt to police what their members do other places online or in real life, and to tell their members not to speak about what happens on Mothering elsewhere is an egregious violation of free speech. Even if they usually get away with this, if some people take it seriously and consider themselves constrained from something just because Lauren said not to do it, it's wrong. They consider themselves progressive and enlightened; these rules are a throwback, practically Stalinist.

And yes, to collect complaints from posters saying "She's talking about me on another message board," then visit that message board to try to figure out who it is, and then send that poster a scolding, is not just childish and stupid, it's a fairly chilling mentality, consider they think they've caught you doing something wrong.

There's a lot of people over there who apparently sincerely believe their lifestyle and beliefs are healing the planet or some such guff. (Meanwhile they have disdain for basic stuff like Internet ethics.)

Compare it to Mumsnet's policies, for instance. Their "philosophy" does say they'll remove posts containing "personal attacks," as well as obscenities and threats. Obviously they have a substantially different feeling about what constitutes a personal attack and are willing to allow some scuffling. I much prefer a site that assumes we are grown-ups and can handle ourselves. (And apparently obscenities often pass also )

Well the Steiner people on there who really know about the anthroposophy refuse to discuss it in any meaningful way.
There's not alot of point in the forum, when all they do is congratulate themselves about having "got it right".
I expect mentioning anthroposophy might push some people to look into it, but they're brainwashed and want to be brainwashed.

I remeber when our doubts crept in, and my husband said after one ceremony or something at the school, that it was a cult. I took pains to find all the good things about the education, and to convince myself that they outweighed the batty stuff.
The schools rely on the fact that you trust them.

It's sure not illegal, but of absolutely no use at all What court would enforce such stupidity?

Now, I don't know what rules apply in countries like Saudi-Arabia or Yemen.

But it's dispicable that they pretend they can enforce rules that are 'unenforcable' in normal civilized societies.

Norhtern, how many Steiner people - anywhere!! - are prepared to discuss anthroposophy in any meaningful way? You do set the standards pretty high

Here's a message typical of the type of run-around parents can expect in Waldorf and

at Mothering. She took her poor child on a 5 hour drive each way to see an Anthro doctor?

"We have been on a wild goose chase all year at the school's recommendation to see everyone from a chiropractor for vestibular problems to an anthro doctor which was five hours away and a complete waste of my time. Now I don't want people to think I'm saying all anthro doctors are because I understand there are some good ones but this one was not helpful to us at all. I think it is fair to say that the school sent us the best route they could for a situation they were not equipped to really handle....but on the same token with all the time I wasted going to these places I could have gone to a psych, had him evaluated, and then maybe been on the road to recovery so he could have stayed.

We are getting an evaluation next week by an OT for ASD. From there I may have to go to a psych. I just hope we get some answers soon."

I know Zooey.
True, but one cantry.

I just read this alarming Steiner passage

"The moment the art of education lies close to the human heart, to the human soul, the spiritual can be brought to man without becoming poison. First you have the diagnosis, which finds that our age is infested with carcinomas, and then you have the therapy-yes, it is Waldorf School education.
Waldorf School education is founded upon nothing other than this, my dear friends. Here the thinking about the cultural sphere is the same as that applied in the field of medicine. This is the specific application of what I spoke about a few days ago, namely, that the being of man progresses to the development of the spiritual from below upwards, from nutrition through healing, and that one must regard education as medicine transposed into the realm of mind and spirit. This strikes us with particular clarity when we wish to find a therapy for civilization, for we can only conceive this therapy as being Waldorf School education.
You will readily be able to imagine the feelings of one who not only has insight into this situation, but who is also trying to develop Waldorf School education in a practical way, when he sees the general effect of this carcinoma of civilization giving rise to conditions in Central Europe that may seriously endanger this Waldorf School education, or even make it altogether impossible. We should not reject such thoughts as these, but rather make them the impulse within ourselves to work together wherever we still can in the therapy of our civilization."

One can try, but one will not succeed

Wherefrom is that quote?

*

I hate to see them taking children to chiropractors. Grown-ups can do what they want, but to subject children to the possible dangers of such practice. It's irresponsible.

Zooey it's here

www.doyletics.com/arjrevs.htm

the same book has these gnome facts too

" The plant gathers the secrets of the universe, sends them into the ground, and the gnomes take these secrets into themselves from what trickles down spiritually to them through the plants. And because the gnomes, particularly from autumn on and through the winter, in their wanderings through ore and rock, bear with them what has trickled down to them through the plants, they are the beings within the earth which carry the ideas of the whole universe on their streaming, wandering journey through the earth.

The feeling of the gnomes within the earth is really this: If we grow too strongly together with the earth, we shall assume the form of frogs or toads

The antipathy that the gnomes have to anything earthly causes the plant to have only its roots in the earth and then grow out of the earth; in fact, the gnomes force the plants out of their true, original form and make them grow upwards and out of the earth.

And when towards autumn the plant withers and everything of physical substance disperses, then these forms of the plants begin to trickle downwards, and now the gnomes perceive them, perceive what the world ? the sun through the sylphs, the air through the undines ? has brought to pass in the plant. This the gnomes perceive, and throughout the entire winter they are engaged in perceiving below what has trickled down into the soil from the plants. Down there they grasp world ideas in the plant forms which have been given shape and form with the help of the sylphs, and which now enter into the soil in their spiritual, ideal form.

In order to gain insight into the process of fertilization, that is to say the process of reproduction, in the plant world, we must be conscious that in the first place the plant form arises through the work of those great chemists, the undines, and the work of the sylphs. This is the ideal plant form which goes down into the ground and is kept safely by the gnomes. It is there below, this plant form. And there within the earth it is now guarded by the gnomes after they have seen and perceived it."

Oh for goodness sake!
And bio dynamic agriculture is based on GNOMES

Gah I can't find it. What's the Steiner-title? (you only come to the main page of the web site, lot's to choose from.)

I found this about Michael, and perhaps it's something for those who celebrate prayer day!

"We must avoid the passive stance of prayer and take an active role in joining forces with Michael in this battle." (Not Steiner, but the reviewer.)

But this is true Steiner wisdom:

"Cleverness, then, has been furnished in abundance by the last few centuries; but what we need today is warmth of Gemüt, and this anthroposophy can provide. When someone studying anthroposophy says it leaves him cold, he reminds me of one who keeps piling wood in the stove and then complains that the room doesn't get warm. Yet all he needs to do is kindle the wood, then it will get warm. Anthroposophy can be presented, and it is the good wood of the soul; but it can be enkindled only each within himself."

The gnomes are everywhere! Gnomes rule!

Oh sorry Zooey. I thught that would go straight to it.
Harmony of the Creative Word, GA#230 ? The Human Being and the Elemental, Animal, Plant and Animal Kingdoms, 12 Lectures in Dornach, Oct. 19-Nov. 11, 1923

Anyone can post what they like within the limits of the law, not libellous etc and any site can bar anyone they choose. I see Melinda Messenger (ex model) in Hello magazine this week has a child at a Steiner school.

yeah, there's a whole thread about Melinda Messenger. I don't remember where. I didn't know who she was, but I learnt where she sent her child to school and that she's getting a divorce. I have already forgot what her occupation was

Thanks Northern. The Plant Kingdom

The Dog must be the invisible creator and ruler of Animal Kingdom, that's my belief (ahh, sorry, Knowledge, obviously, I gained it through clairvoyancy!).

I'm sure Steiner can corroborate the spiritual scientifical accuracy of that knowledge.

The lack of proper education in waldorf schools explained once again:

"Strange as it seems, one meets independent thinking today only in the few people who have not been to school much."(Learning to see in the spiritual world)

Independent thinking, obviously, has to be interpreted, because it's certainly anthrospeak, but yet... what he thinks about learning school subjects, is pretty clear.

"Diseases of the metabolic system are the result of unkind treatment while the child is learning to walk. Digestive disturbances may arise from untruthful actions during the time the child is beginning to speak. Nerve trouble is the outcome of confused thinking in the child's environment." Education and Modern Spiritual Life, GA#307

Lots of kids with nerve trouble in Steiner/waldorf environments then!

But really... it's nice that he says digestive problems are caused by untruthfulness. Must be fun for the child to be treated in accordance with such a stupid belief.

"But really... it's nice that he says digestive problems are caused by untruthfulness."

Didn't Steiner DIE of digestive problems?

Given the alleged consequences of untruthfulness, he simply must have died from digestive problems.

must have

I forget that you have to put those ^ around every word.

The no-thinking policy:

"It is an erroneous belief of our materialistic times that very young children should learn to decide for themselves. On the contrary, we should do everything possible to hinder that. During this period of childhood [7-14], children should learn though authority.

"If we force children into critical thinking before the age of fourteen, it is particularly disadvantageous for them and forces them to create their own conclusions or lose the well-intended power of the surrounding persons of authority. It is very bad if children cannot look up to anyone. The etheric body becomes stunted, weak, and shallow from lack of good examples on which to build."

Isn't that classic?
He died from lying digestive problems, self diagnosed porkies stomach aches

(porkies= porky pies-lies cockney ryming slang, as it's only you two here i thought I'd better clarify

It's even funnier if the word comes from 'pork'... because Steiner didn't eat that! (Though I'm sure he did... in secret!)

Bad for the spirit!

But perhaps pork in pies... that sounds disgusting.

The 'authority' thing truly baffled me though, because I have never seen a rowdier class of children that DS2's Class 1 at Steiner (aged 7). I simply could not understand why the adults in charge could not exert authority over them, particularly when this was a tenet of Steiner. The whole 'imitation' thing had actually worked quite well for kindergarten children, but God knows where the subsequent 'authority' went !!

That's because the teachers are incompetent. It's like seeing spirits. You can't do it just because Steiner wrote it was important!

Authority is not a one-way thing

"Which postulate?"

Take your pick.

"You've lost me already..."

Can't lose something I didn't have.

"What do you care do discuss?"

Nothing.

"And what truth do you feel I'm backing away from?"

Prejudice is not efficient.