Faith school cap ending - is it inclusive?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

Is this policy biased against atheists? Is it a policy that may deny access those from minority faiths access to decent schools? Interesting move in a more secular society.

Our local Catholic School changed its rules a few years ago so that it ended up having DC coming from very far away which in turn made it more difficult for local non faith DC to get their usual places

The school in turn became more dangerous actually because it was now allowing DC from its new list which now included DC from various other faiths above the local non faith DC

It just hadn't worked and it's become a less desirable and more dangerous school plus DC friends aren't at all local anymore

It's like an external darkness has fallen over it

@Araminta1003 "Especially a Marxist one."

Eh?

There used to be a poster on here-it could even have been me-who said that if you had a school where the admissions criteria was ability of the parents to juggle, it would get better results than a proximity only school. Simply because it would get more involved parents.

Marxist education policy is one size fits all and anti religion and independence.

Faith has no place in school except being taught as theory. Faith schools should Be banned IMO

“admissions criteria was ability of the parents to juggle?”

What do you mean by that?

There are tons of Academies in London now with complicated banding tests and sports and music aptitude, single sex, strict rules, grammar, setting vs not setting, streaming etc. There is a plethora of choice - but that is because we have a functioning public transport system, largely. Even Outer London now has the new Superloop buses meaning school kids and their parents get even more choice.
You know choice is good, when a parent can go for a good fit for their DC. Buy in from parent and DC and some effort then translates to valuing the education they receive.

“Faith has no place in school except being taught as theory. Faith schools should Be banned IMO”

The irony, that is your ideology. Which you seek to impose on others. Let people choose for themselves.

@Araminta1003 "“admissions criteria was ability of the parents to juggle?”

What do you mean by that? "

I mean that any admission criterion which requires extra activity by the parents-church attendance or learning to juggle or whatever -is going to skew admissions towards more privileged families and therefore the school is going to perform better by results.

This is my experience too. If I wanted my child at the all-white, all-middle class first school it would have been the secular one where parents pay a premium for expensive houses within half a mile, not the catholic school.

DD has attended secular schools and I'm glad because she would not have met such a diverse bunch if some choices were religious in nature.

The problem I find is that you have kids on the same street or in the same town being divided up because of their faith. It's wrong. There's much more to connections with our community than religion, like common interests and hobbies!

I think we should stop having faith schools. Plenty of DD's friends have a faith but they interact with their temple, church, mosque, synagogue outside of school by going youth groups, doing voluntary work or attending services. It doesn't have to be in schools.

@VenetiaHallisWellPosh "DD has attended secular schools and I'm glad because she would not have met such a diverse bunch if some choices were religious in nature."

That's interesting-what country do you live in if you don't mind me asking?

But yes I do wonder if this is another big f you from the outgoing Tories to Labour, because Labour can do nothing about faith schools once they get in given their complicated history with Jews and Muslims and the current conflict in Gaza, their hands will be tied.
And I am starting to wonder why Tony Blair was so big on Academies and their independence. It all seems to be coming full circle now and I guess for all their downsides the Tories do understand the weak spots.
And in an ironic sort of way if this is the case, they might be doing Starmer a favour, given where he sits in his own party.

What next? Few more grammar annexes in the next few months? Can the Tories actually do this/increase numbers/PAN in existing schools?

Agree. Most of the kids at my DC's Catholic school are from minority groups because Christians aren't all white. In fact, churches I this country are being propped up by immigrants. Not just Catholic but C of E. The main white group is Polish. For most church schools the criteria is to be baptised and go to church regularly. Many ethnic minority groups do that anyway because they are actually religious.

Our local RC are also far more diverse than other schools because the catchment does not just extend to 3-4 expensive streets. They are ethnically diverse and lots of Europeans, Indians from places like Goa, many from the African subcontinent and even some from China, South America etc. Pretty sure once this passes we will get a new RC comp in the Borough.

@CurlewKate She went to school in London. The only religion was taught in RE . Assemblies were never religious.

Ethnically diverse does not mean socially diverse!

I would think they are far more socially diverse than an oversubscribed school that takes from a tiny catchment area! Especially in London with all the people being sniffy about religion but think nothing of buying up flats around oversubscribed schools. Anyone can go to church. Not everyone can spend £300k on a second home! I do agree they should be paying the 20% though if they wsnt 100% faith admission.

But should schools in a rich catchment by that token also pay something? Where will it end?

@DramaLlamaBangBang "I would think they are far more socially diverse than an oversubscribed school that takes from a tiny catchment area!"

Well possibly. But less bad is not much of a recommendation! And no, not everyone can go to church. And often infant baptism is required. That takes organization as well as cynicism to fix.

Without being outing - the VA primary school my DC went to
Some are less than this I know - lowest I think used to be 10%
Some in Wales are fully funded by the church though - it's a lot of a mish mash

The biggest contribution money-wise comes from the fact the church bought/owns the land and buildings

Not if you are actually members of the church it isn't. They will have had their child baptised and be going to church anyway! Not everyone at church schools are trying to game the system. I don't often go to church. Most of the time I go to take my mum. The church is chock full, but there are probably about 10 elderly White people at the most. The rest are Black and Asian. There isn't an outstanding church school attached.

Precisely. The idea that religion imbues a school with higher standards and better results is utter bollocks. It’s down to invested parents.

“ It’s down to invested parents.”

Firstly, invested parents are a good thing. Secondly, mutual respect, kindness and serve thy neighbour etc - all part of Christian values, potentially staff are treated better etc. and helped out more, potentially better governance etc. There are so many different facets to this.

What you cannot expect is to get the RC Church which can barely support its own retiring priests to fund new schools and commit to allowing 50% of non RC in, who might then oppose the value system and curriculum the school are trying to teach, ya know, because “it is their legal right to”. It is that kind of entitlement throughout contemporary British society that they are most likely resisting. Many new schools would give places to non RC and quite happily so, as long as they commit to respecting the values and curriculum the school teaches. Plus it makes for less political interference if they can alter their Admissions freely, depending on local demand, without being beholden to some artificial 50% threshold.

@Araminta1003 "Firstly, invested parents are a good thing. "

Of course they are a good thing. But a school that excludes children who don't have access vested parents is not a good thing.

@Araminta1003 "Secondly, mutual respect, kindness and serve thy neighbour etc - all part of Christian values,"

You really don't see how offensive statements like that are to us non Christians and atheists. It's exraordinary arrogance.