Year 4 child not doing well at school - don't know how to help him/what to do.

[Spacecrispsnack]

I've name changed for this as the situation is quite identifying. DS is an enigma and I don’t know how to help him to get the best out of him. He is in some ways very intelligent and always has been – his ability to understand things and link concepts is very strong, and always has been – for instance when he was 8 months old I told him we were going outside soon and he crawled to get his hat and brought it to me. For things he’s interested in he’s able to understand adult level materials.

He is a good reader, but not interested in reading fiction or longer books in order – he likes dipping in and out of non fiction books he’s interested in, but that’s where the positivity ends.

Basically he says he finds school ‘so so boring’ and he doesn’t need to learn how to write as he is planning to use AI and grammerly when he’s an adult to get his thoughts down. He understands maths concepts but has no interest in practicing them as he says a calculator is a much more accurate tool so what is the point in risking making a mistake. I’ve tried so hard to explain that it’s good to aquire skills because you don’t know what you’ll have access to, but he is not interested. As a result he is really behind in writing (I would say his work looks like a typical year 2’s in both presentation and handwriting) and is not ‘behind’ in maths but is extremely inaccurate as he can’t be arsed to learn and apply things like number bonds or times tables. If I get him to practice his tables he won’t answer with the actual number, he insists on answering with an alternative sum – so if I say what’s 8x3 he’ll reply with 48 / 2, which is fine and a fun game – but it means that there are quite a few he’s not learning as he doesn’t have an alternative sum at his fingertips. However if I sit and make him focus he can manage anything out of the CGP book at his level, so I think the maths is just lack of application.

I realise in some ways this sounds like a stealth boast but it’s really not, I’m beginning to worry a lot about what will happen at high school, we only have one comprehensive he can go to – private is not an option. The local school is good if you are in the top set but below that the behaviour is just not good and he is also very easily influenced by the children who are funny and push boundaries. I'm fairly sure he is intelligent enough to be top set for things, but the way he's going he is not going to be able to demonstrate his ability well enough.

I don’t know what help to ask the school for – I’ve tried raising things so many times, but have been brushed off with boys just not liking writing, that he’ll develop in his own time etc. and I accept that some of this might be true, but I don’t want to let him down and then it be too late for him to catch up/make the most of his achievements. We tried a tutor but he just messed around and constantly distracted himself/the tutor with chats about things he wanted to talk about. I’ve wondered about an ed psych assessment but I don’t actually know what I’d be asking them to do, and I’m just worried that it’s my crappy parenting that’s caused this, but then I have an older child who isn’t like this and is generally focused and achieving their best at school.

If you’ve manged to get this far thank you and I’d be interested in any views even if they might not be what I want to hear.

Aw that's what the opticians said to me, that DS would of never known there was a problem because it was his normal, he was born like that.

It's awful because he does have different shapes eyes to me and DD, he has his dads eyes, they all have squinty American football shaped eyes.... I just thought DS had his dads eyes, they probably all need glasses too 🤦‍♀️😅

I was diagnosed with ADHD last year, only after his teacher had said she suspected DS had it, went home and researched and was horrified to find out i was reading about myself 😂

Did you say your son is four? Well he sounds like a really smart young lad. At four his neural system is not entirely set up for complex reasoning, he can tell you how things feel and, very smartly how he'll strategize for them in the future which delightful. But I think you are worrying too much. He is expressing abstract ideas about how learning will be in the future and that is a very high order learning task. He's smart!

Your son my have specific learning difficulties including dysgraphia but I couldn't know that for sure without testing. The advice you've been given is sound. Boys are often slower to get started in the processes of learning but catch up later on. If he's bright but has learning difficulties (dyslexia) he'll learn in a completely different way to other children. But he will learn. His intellect will grow exponentially as he is understood and supported. His confidence in his own abilities will come from his self esteem. Building his self esteem is your most important job. As for sticking to tasks he doesn't like, thats a very, well, shall we say traditional but inaccurate approach to take. It's also massively un helpful, it's not that he won't concentrate on what he doesn't like. Rather, he can't focus or concentrate in the way you might expect him to. Some of that will be physiological i.e. neural network has more maturing to do, some may represent a genuine difficulty in concentration. He is very very young and I wouldn't worry unduly right now but flag up your concerns to school being very specific about the areas you feel need attention and assistance, sometimes even before testing schools will put learning assistance in place anyhow in the form of learning aids and diversified classroom materials to help. A an immediate example that comes to mind is a table learning square. It's a grid which helps you find tables when you need them. Whether he learns them by rote is immaterial. It's more important that he knows where to find the information when he needs it (Number square). Learning should also be fun and student centred, so, singing tables to tunes he likes would really help. Sing them with him, make it enjoyable.

I wish you well on your journey with him, you'll profit massively with every minute you invest and he will show you how amazing he is every day.

He sounds like he’s used to using his charm with you as a way to negotiate and prove his cleverness whilst getting out of doing his work. He needs to learn that we all have to do things we don’t want. You need to have the expectation as he’s getting older that he learns his tables, improves his writing etc there are going to be many children who think like him
fheyre too clever to try because they’ve got it all figured out.

Id say work on times tables at home to start with but at his age he should be able to focus on his own to learn them using an app.

Just to add that my child was similar about work at home, incredibly good and sweet so i Didn’t like to be too strict with her but she needed my help to learn the skills of perseverance and how to study independently.

@Mamabearsmile the OP's DS is 8 (year 4). Or was, at the time of posting - he'll be just about to go into year 5 now, and presumably 9 years old, at least by next Saturday.

Ah! Yes, note to self- read carefully! all still applies though. I might ask for him to be tested/assessed though to give him the message that progress and help is on the way and to increase his opportunity to learn in an ability appropriate way. Good luck with it all.

Sounds like he's a smart student strategising for something he finds physiologically difficult. He's instinctively trying to protect his brain and avoiding the massive headache that goes with it. Testing, assessment and a learning and approach that meets his needs and is fun would garner greater success. There are actual practical steps that can reveal his learning truths. Nobody has to adopt a "sounds like" approach. Teaching is a whole child (small human) centred science unless the big humans are not switched on. He has a right to learn at an ability appropriate level and his opinions are valid. Go! Go! Small human!

Thank you to the more recent posters, all thoughts welcome. As an update he did have an Ed psych appointment over the holidays which revealed above average verbal cognition but poor working memory which explains quite a few of his struggles. Will be liaising with school to see what we can do differently to support him, and an adhd/autism assessment is also recommended. We’ve had some success over the holidays with keeping up some skills and he did great in the y4 times table assessment (full marks).

@Mamabearsmile I think he is definitely trying to keep a level of control over the situation.

Children with learning diffculties, most of the time feel discombobulated by the learning environment or tasks, particularly the bright ones, but all to a degree feel shame, a sense of otherness and become very good at strategising around their difficulty or physiological distress which occur when trying to learn or express them selves. Quite literally, they have to work their brain three times as hard to achieve what they are really capable of. That is what causes the distress of which I speak. Therefore, it's unsurprising that they're going to want to avoid that situation, it's dreadfully uncomfortable for them and truly tiring. It is also more common than you imagine. The trick is not to work harder 'we all have to do things we don't want to do sometimes!?' I read that here on one of the responses. No, No! It is to learn and be supported to work smarter. No square pegs in round holes. No side routes of lengthy and uninteresting tasks to prepare, let's go straight to the motorway and get there fast! A good school or teacher makes that happen by differentiating learning experiences to bring the right kind of environment to produce meaningful success for all children. That way ALL children in the class experience success and progression not just an average percentage. I always thank the universe for students with learning disabilities because they ensure that lessons are of much higher quality in terms of achievement, for all. There is excellent research out there that proves this canon, and it truly is the future of education.

My sense if that you are an amazing parent, but you're an anxious one and making the whole learning thing particularly pressured and worrying for him.
He's learning with you, at school and with a private tutor too - but he reads some non-fiction, has goals and an very good vocabulary, and has a sense of humour ;). He's 8-9 and you're worrying about what he will be like 2-3 years down the line already.

Not all kids slot perfectly into the school system, it is the one we're stuck with but it is problematic for a lot of children but it doesn't mean their future is doomed. I can remember being taught so much at home that in years 3-4 onwards I completely switched off in school as it was boring and repetitive because I'd already learned it all years before from my parents (with the best will in the world) and school felt more like watching other children being taught stuff. Maybe he is experiencing some of that? The answer to 8x3 is 48 / 2 if you're bored out of your mind. He seems to be saying, I know the answer so well that I can play with it. His talking about tangential topics with the tutor; he seems to be trying to find a way to make it more interesting or build a relationship with the tutor. If you allowed some of that to go on he would be much more likely to work together with them, whether or not it takes a bit longer to get to your goal. (Remember these are your goals and not his). Can his interests be incorporated into his learning another way?

I noticed you haven't mentioned anything much about how he might be feeling inside, only what he can and can't achieve and his behaviour and what you feel about it all. I would personally want to know more about how he feels and thinks. Why is it boring, what would it be like in an ideal world at school etc, what would you do if you were the teacher. I would work towards a goal of him enjoying learning not a goal of being better at performing at school.

In terms of practical suggestions, the educational psychologist is a great one as there are definitely some possible flags for mild ASD or inattentive subtype ADHD (rigidity around the calculator thing / the hat example at age 8 months) and the suggestions about 'knuckling down' etc will lead you absolutely nowhere or backwards in my opinion whether or not that turned out to be the case. It's an old fashioned approach and it doesn't work but breeds resentment.

Thank you for your update. I'd say that he has a degree of dyslexia given his short term working memory evidence. This sometimes.es recorded as "specific learning disability". Good luck with the other assessments. I know you have to wait for stuff which very disheartening for a youngster. Did he have ability (IQ?)scores recorded or attainment scores? (Two separate things) Those are two very important pieces of information. I'm glad you're on the Rd to help. Take a look at the British dyslexia website. It will have all sorts useful information. Any book by Dr Beve Hornsby will be very useful. She was an early pioneer for Dyslexic children. Try to work hard on your childs confidence. Catch him out being good whenever you can and encourage all the time. Learning is physiologically genuinely challenging for him and he'll need more rest. So when he falls asleep after school let him nap for half an hour It really won't hurt. Some very famous and great people are dyslexic. It might help him to know he's in good company. Start with Winston Churchill and go on from there, Richard Branson, Albert Einstien, Kiera knightley, Muhammad Ali. Salma Hayek, Tom Cruise. I hope you have a great journey with him. The challenges need support in the beginning but he'll be his own best resource in the end. Stronger and more prolific at learning and capable of faster/deeper/further thinking than others. Every cloud has a silver lining. Here's wishing you strength and courage, and know there is much support. For all of the things that you have mentioned he's being tested for there is a help tome out there somewhere. Reading around it helps disipates the anxiety for you. Just keep looking for the info and learning until he can do it for him self. Best wishes going forward.