If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

Our fees will increase around £4000 a year if this happens. Nevermind. We’ll pay it, but I will cut our charity donations by the same amount to do so. We currently pay a direct debit of £250 a month to the Trussell trust, that will stop, and so will payments to various other local projects. They’ll also miss out on the gift aid as well. It’s sad really as I think the trussell trust do more good with that money than the govt will, anyone who thinks state schools will improve as a result of this is deluded.

But hey ho. Got to cut ones cloth…

They don't need to through the courts they need to go through parliament to change the law.
How long that takes depends on a number of factors but if they have a large majority and if it is a simple Bill with only a few clauses they should be able to do it quite quickly.

Yes, this! While the government are focused on this they are not working on sorting out the actual problem which is the terrible situation in UK state schools.

This just isn't true and is something spouted by the independent sector .
Independent research by the IFS has found that the increase in revenue will more than make up for the few parents who decide to enter the state system .
But apart from that it's a case of justice. Sending a child to a private school is a luxury , VAT is applied on all other luxuries so it should be applied on private education. There is no fair reason why it should be exempt.

So like nurseries, or university?

Or football, swimming, dance and piano lessons?

The process does matter. With primary legislation MPs and peers can table amendments and try to change the legislation. With secondary, it's a straight yes/no.

Labour MPs are not going to vote against something that was a major part of their manifesto. And the Lords, by convention, do not vote against manifesto commitments or matters relating to tax.

@MrsApplepants fees will not increase, the amount parents pay will increase. I know many people will see this as semantics, but fees, the payment for the service, will not increase. In fact, the cost of providing the service will decrease because schools will be able to claim back vat.

No other countries think like this. Sadly for us people are shortsighted and like to take stuff away if they can.

It won’t benefit many, probably cause some re arranging where people with money displace those with lower amounts

Because private education is not essential.

My DS goes to an independent school funded by out LA - would the LA have to pay tax on his fees
or would they be exempt?

Nor is private healthacre or dentistry

Lol the hysteria on here is absolute classic Mumsnet. As if any parent who pays for private school will just uproot their child one day and dump them at their local comp. (Also you do know that schools take in new children all the time, they'll be able to handle a few extra).

If this concerns you, you have 3-9 months top prepare minimum. Save up to pay the VAT or do your research into schools.

As many people have pointed out there is a surplus of school places. The state school system will not be overwhelmed. If your local school is not a good one then how about putting the effort into making it better.

💯 Goes for SEN places too. There is an absolute desperation from those with SEN children who can't afford to pay for private. You could spend the next 3-9 months supporting their campaigning.

"If your local school is not a good one then how about putting the effort into making it better."

I never understand this point. What is it that, let's say, the parents of 10 new pupils across years 7-9 at a state school who used to go to private school could do to 'make the local school better'? Why haven't any of the 1000s of parents already going done it, if it could be done?

(Private school parent who approves this policy because private education is NOT a basic. Kids will be able to stay in private as they are halfway through, but we wouldn't start them there today with this looming)

They're not comparable and can't be considered luxuries. There aren't any completely state funded universities, state funded nurseries that take babies or state funded swimming classes available to everyone. State education is available to everyone. Private education is a choice

The posters saying 'can't wait' etc might be in for a bit of an unpleasant surprise if and when this happens, especially if they have children in the state system.

My sis-in-law works in the senior team in her local state secondary and they have already had some initial planning discussions regarding this 'what if' scenario whereby there is a significant exodus from the private sector due to VAT being added to fees.
Things discussed include:

• temporary legislation possibly passed to allow for increased class sizes
• building of temporary classrooms on playground to accommodate extra pupils in bulge years
• need to find extra funds to pay for swimming pool hire/ sports facilities/ field hire as the independent nearby has already indicated they will no longer be able to provide those for free
• they are also estimating that their nominal catchment area will probably shrink by about half to one a mile (currently about 4 miles) within 3 years

Be careful what you wish for is all I'd say! I'm just pleased my DC are now in their 20s!

Become a school governor. Fundraise through the PTA. Help your child with homework, be engaged with and support the teachers.

It all comes down to how motivated the teachers feel and how much time they have to spend with each child. For every child that has a parent that wants them to go to school and learn is a parent that has the teachers back. And that means an awful lot.

As if any parent who pays for private school will just uproot their child one day and dump them at their local comp

Well that part is right. They’ll use the top comps and grammar schools and dc at the other end will get somewhere else instead

A problem that will mostly adversely affect other well off parents.

"Become a school governor. Fundraise through the PTA. Help your child with homework, be engaged with and support the teachers."

But are you saying that 10 ex-private school pupil-parents can change a school by doing that that when a thousand current parents haven't? I mean, there already are fundraising efforts and governors and parents who help with homework.

Not really, even in top comps there’s a mix

It’ll just increase towards wealth

The gap between top state and private is smaller than top state and bad state, the dc who can access the former due to leaving private will be totally fine.

The ones displaced might feel it though

Rich people will still send their children to whatever private school they want and can get them into. For middle class people (or below) who thought they would spend their money giving their children a better start in life, rather than going on x overseas holidays a year, this will likely be the final straw after the cost of living rises. If they can they will move into catchments for the best state schools and take places off people on the edges of the catchment pushing them into less good schools. They will then spend their 'saved' money on tutors to supplement their children's education to get them into good universities.

Will this apply to all charities that have education as one of their purposes, or their main purpose? If not, how will the legislation differentiate between the educational charities they do want to hit and those they don't? (If they don't.)

Hold on a minute. The sheer number of these kids will overwhelm schools but the tiny number of parents won't have any impact at all. How does that work?

Also what makes you think thousands of parents are already doing this at struggling schools...?

To tackle your first paragraph, a school with, say, 1500 pupils may struggle to cope with an additional 100 pupils. It is, however, still the case that the number of new parents is small compared to the number of existing parents.

The IFS research also assumes that parents who decide to withdraw from the private sector will spend every penny they no longer spend on school fees on goods and services subject to VAT at 20%. That’s clearly not going to happen in practice. Any money no longer spent of school fees is likely to spent at least partly on savings towards children’s university/house deposits, foreign holidays and pension contributions, none of which are subject to VAT. In fact pension contributions will mean tax relief is due.

VAT is applied on all other luxuries

This isn’t true. Designer children’s clothes, foreign holidays, flights and cake are all more of a luxury than a decent education and none have VAT applied.