If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

Where have I said she would have a more creative experience at state school, frankly, even at a school where there's an emphasis on the 'Arts' it is pretty woeful offerings. Is a very sad situation. I don't think DD would be happy in private school as the ones in my locality are too prescriptive. Her friend attends the most obvious choice around here and from what I can see it isn't going great for her and this is a school that is supposed to be more creative than academic. My DS's girlfriend went to private school but is at state 6th form college with him now, she attended a state primary and actually said she missed out as it was an all girls school and she feels that didn't help her self esteem. She is academically gifted though so the Arts didn't really come into it. She is a kind and lovely girl. I just know that the environment she describes would not suit my DD at all and she pretty much hates all sport except yoga and pilates.

Your words "Personally, it would be too prescriptive for my DC, particularly my youngest DD, she needs to be in a creative environment and I think that is limited at private school".
So you yourself said that private schools are too prescriptive and not as creative environmenta as state schools

I wasn't suggesting you need to be impoverished to be good at Art, I just think you need to be in a context that reflects society's make-up that cannot happen at private school because it doesn't reflect the make-up of society.

Also a bit odd to think that state schools contain more diversity or are a more 'true' window on society.

Private schools often have more ethnic and national diversity than state schools.

All jobs and none are part of society. A lawyer parent is as interesting and valid a window on the world as electrician parent.

Also quite a lot of economic diversity. Sure, one end of the economic spectrum is excluded, but that's also true of most state schools - just sometimes the other end. (And sometimes the same bit of the economic spectrum as private schools. Some parts of London have popular state schools with a catchment of a few hundred metres. Their demographic is identical to local private schools)

Point is, every school has it's own bubble.

And do you think private school kids don't make friends outside school?!

can you produce amazing art if you are segregated from a large part of society.

Private school children are no more sheltered or segregated than many in the state sector. With all
due respect, the fact that your school offers Latin and Greek suggests that it might not be a failing inner city comp where the majority of parents aren’t engaged.

An individual can be “artistic” regardless of their background. People can still excel at art, music, drama or dance for example without necessarily having direct experience of poverty or collapsing classrooms.

how can you make a comment that is 'profound' on the troubles of society.

I’m not sure that this is necessarily a marker of whether someone is artistic or creative.

Unfortunately a lot of the population seem to think that everyone at private school is in some strange kind of exclusive group who wear elaborate uniforms and don’t mix with anyone who isn’t privately educated. Private schools often have a much wider range of backgrounds than state schools (from those on 100% bursaries to very wealthy families).

I also think it’s strange that everyone seems to know which schools their friends and colleagues went to. I wouldn’t have a clue whether colleagues were state or privately educated.

Of course they are, 95% of the population of children who can't afford private school. There is the deliberate purchasing of that segregation by many.

My DC's school (Ds at college now) is a real social mix as we have the lottery system.

In year 7 DS got punched in the face by another boy from a troubled background, who wasn't expelled. DD had a friend who shares a bedroom with her Mum at age 13 and a value pizza was the birthday celebration meal. You can't argue that private school has a genuine array of economic circumstances as nearly every parent in the country is priced out of private school.

Exactly @Another76543 there seems to be a weird preoccupation with some posters about where people went to school and the ability to tell a privately educated person through their behaviour. No-one I know irl gives a toss.

10% of the kids at our school have 100% bursaries. ( more have reductions of 40% - 10% on the fees ) Many of them are ‘looked after kids’.

No one knows who they are, they don’t have a badge but we know this because it’s paying parents who are paying for their place at the school so it’s all reported annually to us. It’s worth noting this % has reduced in the last report by 40% in anticipation of Labours tax.

I doubt there are many super millionaires at state school. I doubt there are many people whose home is Kazakhstan, China and Russia.

The population of private schools is so much more diverse in terms of background.

Someone who punches you in the face isn't more real or a more valid reflection of society than someone who has moved here from Hong Kong.

And if you insist that experiencing difficulty and suffering is necessary: every kid has their own troubles. Not seeing a parent for weeks on end because of international work obligations hurts just as much as not seeing them for any other reason.

All of these different interactions give us a new view on the world. And each school will have their own slice of them.

How ridiculous by it's very nature- fee paying, isn't going to be economically diverse, it just can't be. This is the problem with the echo chamber that is inhabited by people who are well off it just dismisses the whole idea of economic diversity, lie it is irrelevant and you're kidding yourself or making yourself feel better about the situation if you think state school is about the same in economic divergence as private. Quite apart from anything many children now have to experience the shoddy conditions of state school- lack of Arts funding, lack of heating, structurally perilous buildings, bad food, no canteen. It is not just conditions in your home.

10 % is not exactly high but it is much higher than the average private school dishing out 100 % bursaries.

Having gone to a state school in a deprived area the diversity amounted to poverty, prison, social services involvement and so on. I had absolutely no exposure to anyone from a professional background for example. Maybe that means I'm a massive snob that I don't particularly want that for my own children. They have exposure to such a variety of people, with friends' parents doing all sorts of different jobs, that I could not have imagined when I was their age.

And no, the poverty didn't make me a brilliant artist!!!

Dd's new friend is from Hong Kong, I dropped her at her Dad's work in a restaurant in town as she had locked herself out, a an array of nationalities is not the domain of the private school.

Again didn't state you had to be impoverished to be a good artist, IMO it helps in your commentary as an Artist if you are not segregated from the rest of society.

I mean, are you an Artist? If you weren't one to begin with then what relevance is your comment to what I have explained.

It was a little joke!

Her Dad works in a chain restaurant so another representation of both economic and ethnic diversity, you I presume are discussing the wealthy from Hong Kong.

Although...as it happens...I'm a pretty good artist!

I just happen to be a much better lawyer!

I think being punched in the face probably gives you more of an idea of life not being as charmed as some children may feel it is at private school.

So you are a talented Artist that has be on a Lawyer? What Art form are you referencing. Or do you mean good at painting by numbers (joke)

Ah you've got me. So long as the numbers aren't too big!

Actually I retract that, it was rude of me, for all I know you could be a brilliant artist.

Diverse doesn't mean disadvantaged. Diverse means lots of difference.

There is often more variety in childrens' backgrounds in private schools than in state schools.

And I think it's diversity which gives you a clear view of the world, more than disadvantage.

The 10% Is not as high now as they’ve lowered the % offered because of the potential 20% tax .
So ultimately Labour are reducing diversity.

What % of super millionaires kids go to state school. What % of children live in different cultures abroad. Zero in state schools.

Its worth noting some schools will become even more culturally diverse as more places will be available to students from abroad.

Diversity isn’t just about economics.

Only knowing people who work in a restaurant isn't any more diverse than only knowing people who own restaurant chains.

Knowing both is diversity, and brings a better understanding of the world.

Absolutely.
Its the potential to meet people from all backgrounds.
State just doesn’t do this.

Not least the chance of meeting state kids in their own environment by doing voluntary work via the school. How many state kids do an afternoon a week volunteering in private schools to learn their perspective. None. If they did they’d see how really diverse it is.