If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

@Goldenbear - a race to the bottom makes the UK poorer, which makes things worse for everyone.

Taxing education harms a country's future. That's why the EU doesn't allow it.

What I thought didn't need saying, but perhaps I do need to be explicit so that pp don't get the wrong end of the stick again :

Both DD and our state-educated neighbours' kids have very different life chances to a child who has grown up with insecure accomodation, never sure whether they'll have to move tomorrow, 3 people to a small room and no space to do homework.

Very different life chances to a child whose single mother is working 2 jobs to keep a roof over their heads, and has no time to do homework with her kid and help with the maths concept he's struggling with, no books in the house, and no-one realises he has dyslexia.

Very different life chances to the cripplingly shy child who has no wider family living close by, didn't ever want to do activities after school, and ends up spending hours a day on computer games.

Nothing. To. Do. With. The. School.

What I thought didn't need saying, but perhaps I do need to be explicit so that pp don't get the wrong end of the stick again :

Both DD and our state-educated neighbours' kids have very different life chances to a child who has grown up with insecure accomodation, never sure whether they'll have to move tomorrow, 3 people to a small room and no space to do homework.

Very different life chances to a child whose single mother is working 2 jobs to keep a roof over their heads, and has no time to do homework with her kid and help with the maths concept he's struggling with, no books in the house, and no-one realises he has dyslexia.

Very different life chances to the cripplingly shy child who has no wider family living close by, didn't ever want to do activities after school, and ends up spending hours a day on computer games.

Nothing. To. Do. With. The. School.

Anecdata to suit your narrative

That is explicitly what you said - that state school children could "happily" have all those extra curricular. Now you are backtracking. Maybe concentrate on getting your thinking straight rather than all your bold words and emojis.

There is disparity within the sector. That has already been covered earlier in the thread.

That is explicitly what you said - that state school children could "happily" have all those extra curricular.

Can you show where I said that? Try reading it again. Read @Labraradabrador 's explanation of what I said.

Oh, and the word "happily" in that context means that I'm happy they can. Not that they go to those classes skipping.

hth.

Except they can't. It adds to the irony of what you said.

It’s ludicrous to say schools don’t make a difference. We all know quality teaching makes a difference. However a poor child should be able to access this and greatly improve life changes. As long as they aim high in uni and for work.

We don’t need as many degrees as we award. 20% don’t do jobs needing a degree. What we need is more choice post 16-18 that 20%.

Apologies if I’m reading this wrong @Goldenbear and just ignore this post if I am but
re Uni costs

All Students get a loan for all fees and the basic maintenance cost. This is not means tested.
Info on Your salaries is only needed to claim the additional maintenance cost.

So your dc, like every student, will be able to get the basic support.

( Im not going into how the basic maintenance doesn’t even come near to paying for rent and you’ll need the full amount and then some to pay rent and eat but that’s another thread )

Well said👏👏

Yes, the basic maintenance loan is insufficient to cover living costs. As you say, another thread but it barely covers accommodation in places like Exeter and Bristol and parents have to top up quite significantly. Some universities like Oxford and Cambridge are cheaper for accommodation. It is the squeezed middle where it really hurts but the Government keeps this quiet and some parents don't even know about this funding requirement until University is upon them. Also, not all students can work due to the demands and placements of their courses.

The la has to offer a school but it won’t necessarily be the one the parents want, it will be the school with a place which could be miles away and terrible. If the parents turn this down the la have complied with their duty

Absolutely agree ‘ a poor child should be able to access a good education’

Which is why countries with a really good state education dont have so many private schools and their attitude to private education is very different from the majority of the UK population.

The solution, therefore, is a much better state education.
Attack the core problem rather than tinkering about at the edges of others.

@TwistyTreeRoots you might want to read back through your own posts (those that haven’t been blocked) and see how well you have met the standard of civility.

apologies for taking the time to try and respond to your posts and make sense of the jumble of arguments you have thrown out. Clearly a waste of my time.

Yes I have one at Exeter. His halls are approx £7000/yr and next year he’s found a house with mates which will leave him with £500 after rent to live on after we pay for his additional maintenance

He has a job which helps but it’s proving an issue with uni work load.

His twin is at Uni in London….I can’t even bring myself to write down his costs.

Apologies to all.
Didnt mean to derail the thread there

As a post up thread.
Labour will not be excluding sen schools or children at other private schools. Well not at the moment anyway but things could change.
Labour think schools will attempt to cheat the system if they are excluded.

I'm not saying that the school makes no difference, though appreciate that my frustrated one-liner might imply that!

I've consistently said that I think private schools give better education, and it's better education that gives better life chances not some magical privilege that comes with a school name.

Private school isn't the only way of getting better education.

There are far bigger differences of opportunity within the state sector than there are between 'good state + privileged family' and private.

So attacking private schools - and 20% really is a major attack - is illogical and hypocritical. It's mob mentality: hurting people you don't like.

Absolutely all for improving the state sector. But that's not what this policy is about.

One way it would make state schools better is that if the number of engaged parents increases in the state school (because as we are always being told on MN, private school parents are very engaged), then the number of engaged pupils in a state school is likely to increase = ratio of engaged pupils : disruptive pupils is improved so teachers can spend more time doing their actual job of teaching. Teachers at state school, believe it or not, are absolutely overjoyed to have engaged kids in their classes .

I find @Labraradabrador very clear and concise. And that she understands exactly what I was saying. (I know I can be wordy!)

I think it's more than just having different ideas, we seem to have completely different ways of thinking. It's interesting.

You really are being very rude to her. Far more so than she was to you.