If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

There are of course perfectly legal ways for the schools to reduce their VAT bill, eg reclaiming VAT paid on capital expenditure.

Pretty sure that even Labour can't be so blinded by ideology as to make schools pay even more VAT than for-profit companies do

So you're quite happy other children with needs similar to your dc whose parents aren't as wealthy as you so will no longer be able to afford the fees can't get the same education? What a win!

To be clearer:

• pretending that fees are a donation to the school would breach Gift Aid rules. So it can't be used by schools now to reclaim income tax

• pretending that fees are a donation to the school is also not being recommended as a way to avoid the new VAT on top of fees

The income tax we've already paid on our salary (higher rate for most parents) is obviously completely separate to VAT - the additional tax Labour are proposing.

There is no existing tax break on fees. This is an extra Labour tax on education.

There are very few parents that worry about other dc when theirs has needs @MyGooseisTotallyLoose They are not responsible for them and, frankly, have enough concerns of their own to last a lifetime. Everyone will be fighting for their dc as best they can. We really need to stop attacking parents as they are only trying their best for their child.

So drop the policy then . @MyGooseisTotallyLoose is right

Because other countries in Europe don’t have anywhere near as many students in private domestic education. (Not including international schools).

@TizerorFizz that posters saying they are wealthy enough to not have the change affect them, that's what's a bit shit that they're saying they don't care about dc it will affect.

@OOBetty as someone who has spent 20 years working in education finance mostly in independent schools I have not heard of a serious discussion on schemes involving gift aid. It would be massively damaging reputationally and anyway it doesn’t work. It is something that quite a lot of parents especially the city types do ask about regularly so it’s a common myth that it can be done.

So? Aus do and even do an actual tax rebate

We seem to be the only ones idiotic enough to think this is a win

Does anyone know if this will apply to special schools?
Our daughter is in an independent special school for autistic girls. It's the only way we'd get her to school. It's been truly life changing for her.

We are NOT rich. I work in the NHS and literally every penny I earn pays her school fees. We live a simple life on one salary (my husbands) so we can afford this. Small house, shit car, no holidays.

When this goes through, it's highly unlikely we'll be able to keep her in there.

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose
yep
such a race to the bottom

Not actually true for every country and some even give a tax break to send kids private because it relieves the burden on the state.
Fundamentally this is nothing to do with equalling access and all to do with firing one at Tory voters because of the assumption that all parents who send their kids to private school vote Tory. Like I said above, if Labour actually cared about improving state education then they would add it to the overall income tax burden.
So you would have an extra 1% on top of all income tax to pay for improving state education. That is fair because we all benefit from an educated population.

Sadly @Nowanextraone I think pp have said it would, but hey, who cares about them and what helps as long as you know those 'rich or aspirational posters' are affected and stopped..
It's disappointing and disgraceful especially as they bleat on about 'the greater good'.

This tax is all about envy. It’s not about what’s best for children. It’s punishing people. Of course there are differential earnings and choices made. It’s unlikely anyone would start a company or aim for any high paying job if taxation takes too much away and that includes choice. It has never been a good policy to drive wedges between people like this and so many choose independent for very solid reasons. Envy and punishment is always a Labour trait and it’s not getting my vote and neither will the Cons! My MP is a Truss supporting idiot.

This is one of the problems.
If you force them to add VAT etc then ALL providers of any kind of education must do so.

Council's will be funding fewer places, people who are just about affording specialist education will be priced out.

All that's going to happen is kids are forced out of specialist support, those just about affording expensive schools will go and raise house prices in certain catchment areas, and the wealthy won't give a flying fuck as they'll either absorb the cost (after all, if you're shelling out £30k on fees and £5k on extras... What's another few K to them?) Or they'll move to a cheaper independent. Also the independent schools might not feel the need to provide their facilities to the local state schools anymore (eg swimming pools)

This is one of the problems.
If you force them to add VAT etc then ALL providers of any kind of education must do so.

No this is not true. They can, if wished, carve out SEN schools or any other type of specialist school when they draft the new legislation that applies VAT. The question is whether it’s always possible to tell whether a school is specialist or not - the difference will be clear in some cases but perhaps not in others.

This tax is all about envy.

This is absolutely true IMO.

Try not to worry @Nowanextraone . No-one really knows what's going to happen.

-Labour might not get in (they've lost despite high poll leads before)
-Even if they do, they might change their mind on the policy
-They will probably try to exclude special schools. It will depend on the exact legislation they write (which they haven't said yet) but may depend on eg the nature of your DD's school and/or whether she has an EHCP plan

What you can do:
1.If your MP is Labour, write to them. Explain your situation and the impact this would have on you. Ask them to raise your case in the debate and vote against the change. Ask whether there's anything else they can do to help you.
2.Ask your school about bursaries, or else a payment plan where the fees are stretched over a longer period (ie after she has left school). Unfortunately, in a special school there may be quite a few families in your position, but the school will try to help your DD to stay
3.Consider whether there's any way you could make it work. BUT first, weigh this up carefully against her continuing care needs: this might not be the best way to spend your money.

Eg. how much longer does your DD have in education? And sorry to ask bluntly, but is her education going to make the difference which allows her adult independence and even a job? Or will she need a high level of continuing care in adulthood?

I'd normally think it's a bad idea to do things like extend mortgage or take on debt to fund private education, but if you think it will make an enormous difference to her life outcome, you could consider it.

Wishing you and your DD all the best.

oh, and if your DD doesn't have an EHCP, start the process to get one!

Apparently special schools will be caught. They are planning to exempt those with EHCPs though. I predict a huge increase in those applying for EHCPs, at a cost to the state which I doubt has been factored in. I don’t know how easy it is to change VAT legislation so it applies to some children and not others. It’s another example of how this ridiculous policy is not going to be easy to implement and will undoubtedly lead to unintended consequences.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/22/private-schools-special-loopholes-vat-rules-labour-says/

“Labour is refusing to exempt all special needs pupils from its VAT raid because private schools would exploit a "loophole" to dodge the levy, a shadow minister has said
Sir Keir Starmer is planning to levy 20 per cent
VAT on private school fees if Labour wins the next election, including on independent special schools, which cater for children with special learning needs and disabilities.
Shadow ministers have promised to exempt fees for children with an education, health and care plan (EHCP), which are issued by local authorities and detail the support they require.
However, more than 1,600 children in independent special schools do not have an EHCP, which can take years to obtain.
Helen Hayes, a shadow education minister, told MPs that special schools would not be exempt from VAT on fees because Labour believes private schools would exploit a "loophole" by claiming to be special schools.
Defending the policy during a Westminster Hall debate, she said: "It is the way we avoid a loophole whereby any school can claim that it is a special school.”

@Another76543 yep and a lot of DC at private schools don't have an EHCP precisely because of the barriers in the way of getting one but are in private schools specifically because they can't cope in mainstream. But again Labour don't care. How can anyone seriously look at this and think that they really care about the education of children?

I disagree with your use of the term "lottery" for the opposite reason. It's not a lottery for those who have the resources to choose the right postcode.

This is exactly the long term problem with a policy such as this.

It will hit all forms of education that are paid for. That’s the policy so obvious to all. It won’t just hit the private schools so many are against.

However the effect will be more far reaching aswel.
The fairly obvious ones are private schools cutting back on the benefits to the wider public and local schools and children.

Free music teachers, sports facilities, revision classes ( our school pays teachers to offer free gcse and A level revision classes during all holidays, this has already been cut for next summer now ) teaching support especially primary schools ( our sixth formers volunteer one afternoon a week for 1:1 reading and maths support), theatre and drama facilities, free music instruments etc. I only know if these few but I assume there’s more. I know concerts and plays have free performances for local schools aswell.

Our school for example will be charging local schools now for all sports facilities and fields. They have no fields anymore having all been sold off.

Then there’s free places offered and many many burseries offering up to 40% reduction in fees. The school has reduced these in numbers already in anticipation of this tax.

This is a headline vote winning policy. Nothing more.
With the ability to sidestep, financially, the increases for many parents this policy will do little, if anything, to increase the overall economy and nothing to improve state education.

My children have attended two private schools.
For both we signed forms for gift aid as we are tax payers.

This is just the norm.

I didn’t keep a copy just in case I had to prove it🤣🤣🤣🤣

Others have queried the gift aiding here.
I can confirm we have the same with our schools.
Both having charitable status.

Are you sure you weren't signing gift aid for something like membership to the parents association (optional, and not expensive) rather than fees?

If your schools are claiming gift aid for fees, they're breaking the law. That would surprise me.