If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

Did you quote the wrong post?

Which rather begs the question, why can't we just have an education system that gives the best chances for everyone!

The policy is a gimmick that works to get people going for obvious reasons

It’s not because it will raise any money in fact it’ll likely be damaging

People might not like the phrase politics of envy but the reasons the policy is popular are pretty simple. It’s not due to effectiveness.

Even if it is a Gimmick, why is it going to appeal to the voters at this particular point in time. People want to see inequalities addressed as the differences in wealth inequality are the worst they have ever been.

There’s no point in doing this policy over others if you want actual change

This will just damage a sector for little to no benefit

If a policy actually looked like it could do something then great.

To add I hope they drop it as they have another announcements

People want to see inequalities addressed as the differences in wealth inequality are the worst they have ever been.

Do you think people are disagreeing with you on this point? You seem to be having an argument with yourself.

From what I see, the majority agree with this point, but disagree that this is the right way to address it. It’s a policy that will achieve the opposite of its supposed aims.

Agree! But Labour attacking well performing privates doesn’t do anything to fix the state sector!

I think many private parents would be more accepting of the policy if it was in anyway linked to a concrete plan for improving state education…. But even optimistic estimates of revenue take from the policy would be a drop in the ocean, and have been promised 6x over to vague poorly articulated ideas that don’t really address the underlying dysfunction of the educational system today.

i did not put my two in private by default- we started in state and moved once we saw what a shitshow it was (in our school anyways). I would relish access to great state provision.

I doubt Labour would be able to introduce the tax immediately.( if it’s even legally doable )
It would have to be a slow burn to give parents, local councils and state schools a chance to find other schooling arrangements.
Labour may also have to consider other charities such as housing associations that also benefit and remove their non tax status too.
Its not that simple.

It’s a vote winner. Nothing more

Again though that's to assume everyone thinks selfishly when they go to the polling station. On this trajectory of wealth inequality the future looks bleak, some us don't want to live in that Dickinsean society! I'm not coming from a place of envy, DH and I work in positions that would be considered, 'privileged' but as my DH says it's there to see, where he works in London there are so many homeless people, my Mum lives in the midlands and the market town has never seen such a problem with homelessness, the doorways of the shops that have closed down have become the new shelters for the homeless, my Mum reporting of human excrement in the corners, when I lived there for 6th form college (25 years ago) this was a thriving market town with shops that weren't just Poundland or Savers, nice cafes used to be available etc. Starkly, you have the huge private/boarding school nearby and 25 years ago you would regularly see these teenagers at the weekend mixing in the town, not anymore, I wonder why! My beautiful Edwardian state 6th form college closed down and overgrown due to the decimation of council budgets. The chances of going to Oxbridge or RG quite high when I attended, now the only option is a college where the chances of Oxbridge are zero and RG probably rarely features as an option.

There’s no room to move on much, if we are not shifting wrt EU issues. Hence the cross over on so many policies between the parties

And then just this gimmicky VAT one is all that’s left

They should drop it because it’ll be damaging

Is that really the only area of your budget where you could make a saving? You are absolutely spent out, month to month, at the moment? It'll be a straight choice: school fees, or donating to food banks?

Because if that's not strictly the case, I don't think this argument is a great look for you, tbh...

Agree, these Ill thought out policies will win votes for Labour
There won’t be much detail in its viability ( if any) but people will latch on to them and I’m not convinced many people even care if they work as long as ‘well at least we are all equal’.

In which case we need to get rid of grammars, faith and all selective schools.

It’s Like Brexit….I’ll thought out….a policy of lies and drama…….that’s going well 🤣🤣🤣🤣

The thing is though, Brexit happened under the Tories so it is not really an argument to not vote Labour from the voters' point of view. Plus, the impact of which on many people's quality of life will be felt now, the same people will probably not have much sympathy for the VAT on the education of the children of 'rich people'.

Im not discussing Labour v Conservatives. I’m discussing policies.
As an aside and not really relevant but
I look at all policies then decide which party ticks the most boxes that I feel passionate about.
I also look at voting in Parliament ( the recent changes made to the ceasefire proposal, for example ) I don’t have a regular following for any party.

How can you not discuss the Labour party when discussing a Labour party policy?

The Conservatives are the other realistic choice (unless you live in my constituency where it is The Green party) but they are not going to become the next government. The Conservatives have ruined this country's economy and many can see the real life impacts of that on public services, many are not going to vote for more of that as they are the majority. A small minority can afford private school, the rest don't care it is a non issue.

Just as I said.
I divorce myself from the hype of each Party and reactionary news and look at the cold facts behind each policy.
I don’t blindly vote labour because I’ve always voted labour
I don’t blindly vote conservative because I’ve always voted conservative

I consider the policies

100% this.

You would hope so wouldn’t you, especially before they announce something with huge implications for so many children’s education but unfortunately I wouldn’t be so sure of this. When Bridget Phillipson was on here she said they were relying on the IFS report. That is a perfectly decent report but it’s just one researcher and no substitute for rigorous internal analysis. He makes his assumptions and gaps in the knowledge base very clear and one of the main ones is that he is having to make assumptions about precisely what Labour are intending to do.

they’ve made policy announcements before without seeming to understand the details and then had to row back (charity status and private schools for example) so it really doesn’t look as if they have the advice and knowledge base you might expect. Perhaps there simply is much less funding for policy development than you might think. I hope they will be responsible and do that work when in government before trying to implement it. The rumours that they want to do it asap are worrying and suggest that this is ideological.

Agree @Mia85
Last time this was announced Labour fell flat on their faces because they thought they could just make private schools state.
Did their ‘amazing’ lawyers and financiers forget
the state would have to buy the land and buildings
individuals left many of the buildings to the school as a charity

You cant discriminate against one type of private education and indeed Labour would have to discriminate to leave those music, ballet and sen schools alone. Not to mention the grammar crammers et all.

I doubt they’ve factored in the huge financial benefit to towns that host these private schools either. Parents from the uk and abroad staying in hotels, using restaurants etc
Have a look at Canterbury during King's week, it’s heaving with all the hotels full to capacity.

So I think it’s very unlikely this policy has been looked at in any real terms.

This policy would have been looked at with as much scrutiny as the green policy, the nom dom policy and no bonus caps - all changed

ie barely to not at all nor with any substance

I’ve taught in both private and state schools, including one very well known private school.
The longer I am teaching the longer I think that private schools having ‘charity status’ is totally indefensible. They’re not charities. Every now and then they’ll invite the local state schools to listen to a visiting speaker or come along to a sports event, or get the sports coaches to go out and do a few hours cricket training or something like that as ‘outreach’ and then say this justifies their charity status.
There are far more foreign students in UK private schools than declared - private schools want to make the number look lower than it is otherwise they worry they’ll lose interest from the domestic and interestingly also the international market - Chinese parents for example looking at England will want an ‘English’ experience at boarding school. So the son of a mega wealthy couple who have a flat in Chelsea will be put down as domestic student. Lots have dual nationality as well.
Anyway my point is that these students have loads and loads of money and the VAT won’t
bother them at all.
It will affect middle class couples who can only afford the school with a bursary. Loads of private schools, especially boarding, give out bursaries to British children. These are children from already comfortable backgrounds but the school will point to it as evidence of charitable work. Very hypocritical - it’s actually to keep UK numbers up.
I would argue that we need more middle class children in the state system. Aspiration is a huge huge problem. But if your friend’s parent is a doctor/university graduate/banker/well paid professional etc then suddenly its more
achievable and less intimidating.

I wonder how many swing voters will now vote conservative because of this policy?

EasternStandard · Today 16:17
This policy would have been looked at with as much scrutiny as the green policy, the nom dom policy and no bonus caps - all changed.

Also they’ve done a U turn on removing charitable status from schools. It’s odd they didn’t look into any of this before they announced these policies rather than then having to cancel or water them down.

5?

The vast majority of parents sending their children to private school will vote conservative either way