Convince me to not homeschool..?

[TawnyT]

Hello MN. I think we're going to homeschool my DD.

DD is 2 now. DP and I both work currently and she's in nursery 4 days a week (I work PT). We jointly earn about 150k and would loose a third of that if/when I quit work to homeschool. Based on our current ongoings its financially feasible.

I just don't think our school system quite cuts it anymore. Not sure it was ever great really, but the attendance crisis, increase in bad behaviour and decrease the number and quality of teachers, the introduction of questionable 3rd party teaching material, increased focus on exam results, and generally bad reports from teachers/sudents on their current school experience... has me thinking there might be a better way to do things.

We're considering homeschooling and potentially travelling a bit (DP can work from anywhere). We would enrol in a local homeschool programme while in the UK (there's lots in our area) to cover the social aspect and provide a bit of structure to work to. DP and I currently work from home so we know we can spend a lot of time together quite comfortably and are good at instilling a work-like structure at home. We'd let DD have input on what to learn and when, and give the option of traditional schooling if she wated to...

It feels like a massive step though, and so against the norm. So I'd love to get other views and opinions... has anyone homeschooled and loved it? Hated it? Why? What worked, what didn't work? Anything I haven't thought about? Anyone having a great experience with schools (as a parent or teacher) and think I should reconsider?

I agree, we hear a lot about in the media and on here about what is going wrong in schools, but you don’t often hear about the positives. DD2 is at a very caring, nurturing infant school which does a lot of learning through play. It shares enormous grounds with the junior school and both schools are great. DD1 went through both schools and is now at a secondary school, which she enjoys, lots of opportunities, large group of friends and no petty rules and great teachers and is making amazing progress.

Covid taught me that I was not suited to home schooling, I need adult company and also I like the fact at work that I am Ionacat and not just DD’s mum. My needs are also important and I‘m a much better Mum because I work and get what I need (and have a flexible job for the chauffeuring service for various activities after school!) However other people are different.

Home schooling is right for some families and children, it’s a better alternative to schools in some places, but it’s not right for everyone.
You’ve got time. I would sort out things legally. Look around at all of your local options and then take time to see what would work for you and then also your DD.

Well neither decision is forever.

One of my children got so much out of school and i couldnt have replicated that at home.

The other didnt due to SEN. I was forced into a stint at homeschooling and he was fine but I wasnt really up to it.

Do what you believe to be right for your family as a whole. The education system IS crap.

My advice is follow the national curriculum so you don't limit your child opportunities. I home educated and then dd asked to go to school and as I follow the NC she was able to do that and not struggle with the academic side. She is now asking to home educate again so I'm considering.

What I will say is if you practice home Ed before starting school be prepared for a very board child in reception. My dd could read etc before she started school and was soo board and not at all modest and alienated all potential friends. She's autistic and I've found most home Ed peers are also neurodiverse so this will skew people's opinion on their social skills.

But as you are not married I would no do it. You need to protect yourself financially. Yes home Ed can be cheep for younger kids (it's not if you do GCSEs and I think it's failing a child if you don't give them these opportunities) but it impacts your ability to work. People say you can do learning anytime and can still work etc but have a think is this best for the child? The parents I know with this attitude have older kids who are significantly behind because there has been no push to teach them. They don't all "learn in their own time"

I think that HE is better for some children but you can’t possibly know that aged 2, and probably not until she’s given school an actual go. Think about what’s best for her not you.

I share your general concerns however primary schools in particular are generally lovely places. Mine are 8 and 10 and have really loved it and have learnt far more than I could ever teach them.

many of us homeschooled during Covid and it was a pretty demoralizing experience (for both parents and children)- course the school’s lack of support was a major factor - but my kids just didn’t thrive in the home environment at all, nor did most other kids I know.

also I agree with what pp said You really can't underestimate how much schools support the forging and reinforcement of social bonds. Socialising is literally laced throughout the child's whole day at school and can't be replicated by seeing someone at scouts once a week.

go see local schools and apply in the normal way so that you are very clear on what option there is for your dd. And I’d highly recommend giving it a go- you might be pleasantly surprised. Fine to have HE as a back up plan in case it doesn’t suit her.

@TawnyT I’ve often complained about my child ‘s school to friends etc - but not so much that I’d choose to HE!

Home-schooling during covid showed me that the child who loves to learn also thrived at home - but to educate the school-refusing child was hard work almost every single day. That child needed to be amongst their peers, to get dirty and have fun, to basically dilute the academic element. Combining these two very different children’s needs, skills and ages was exhausting.

Ultimately school has many people’s ideas inputting into your child. Yes some of the ideas are too religious and there’s too much woke nonsense for my liking but on balance, teachers are highly trained and they know what they’re doing!

Ask your local school what the reception year covers in terms of learning, and I think you’ll be surprised how much they do.

BUT - what you can do is give your child the extra opportunities that may not come up at school, follow their passions that way, whether it’s martial arts or sailing.

Having said all that not every child loves or thrives at school - for the academic children on the spectrum who struggle at school there needs to be funding for educational opportunities. Why should only those without or with specific learning difficulties be able to access education. Or those parents who have the resources to HE. It boggles the mind.

If it helps, I was homeschooled as a kid so that our family could go travelling. I was out of 'the system' for 3 years and by the time I went back into mainstream school I was way ahead of my peers, particularly in writing and reading and just in general understanding of the world. We had some incredible adventures growing up, things other kids had never seen or heard about. It gave me a much bigger, more rounded view of the world and I went on to Uni and to do a postgrad.

Lots of upsides in terms of education and culture but downsides were that moving back to a small town was tough going. Didn't have any problems making friends but to this day I still have TCK (Third Culture Kid) Syndrome which depending on the child, can be a good thing or a bad thing.

This is not the question you asked but if you're thinking about impact on your DC, it's perhaps helpful to know. I would not have changed my childhood for the world. I'm glad it happened the way it did.

I had no idea what good home education looked like until I stumbled upon a few Tik Tok Accounts. The parents do not pretend they themselves can teach much of the curriculum - instead the children will spend a few hours a day with a tutor with other home Ed children but then do lots of other activities - sports, forest school, museums etc. They still had great social opportunities and friends. You obviously need money and time to offer this - if we could make this work we would as I already know in my bones that DD with ASD is going to be a school refuser.

A genuine question I always have about homeschooling is how do kids manage to cope with advanced level maths, physics and chemistry? Up until primary/middle school seems fine as everyone can read and write and it's easy to teach that to children. However the school curriculum from age 15-18 containing complex calculus, statistics, physics...basically things I've long forgotten and could never remotely understand or teach today. Unless the parent comes from a STEM background, how are kids supposed to leave home school with the adequate amount of knowledge for most university degrees or academic jobs?

That sounds more like build-your-own private school than home education. You’d surely be as well just sending them to private school in the first place if you’ve got that much money.

@User3563573 People use tutors or do online classes or even homeschool groups. Homeschool doesnt mean the parent teaches everything. They areange the education. Some of it might br just activities with family but some can be much more formal.

It ruined my life.

A lot of parents I know are either fully aware that they're not offering a standard education and that their children may not get qualifications in the traditional sense or at the standard time. If your parents do a trade or live a sort of nomadic, alternative life then I guess this could work as they will probably end up making connections through that lifestyle.

This really depends on the child. Most kids I've met on our home Ed journey are out of school because their needs cannot be met in school. My son for example has significant needs than can only be met in a special school that won't ever offer him these higher learning opportunities- for this reason he's not got a school place at all!! But we have friends who's kids won't be academic this way and would not be missing out.

There are online schools or courses. For GCSE and A level. Or tutors. Loads of free resources out there too if you have a capable child who can self direct their learning this isn't a problem. But they need to be motivated learners like a typical uni student just younger. My academic DD could easily manage to learn the difficult stuff at home self directed but also as within the close family we have science and maths degrees so there is help should she need it. I would prefer she do school however as home Ed doesn't have access to the practical side of science eg my dd wants to do chemistry and I can't facilitate the practical.

But from my personal experience most kids are like my son. Not going to be great academics. Needs his maths and English to get a job or college course and need life skills so he can one day be independent but he's not a high level STEAM candidate and never will be

Taking a deep breath before I say this as it will be highly controversial: every adult I’ve met who was home schooled is a bit odd and socially awkward. It affects their ability to manage socially in the workplace too. I like odd/unusual people but it’s so marked that I would only contemplate it for my DC if they absolutely could not manage in a school.

I agree with some of the PPs on here that you need to recognise that parents who homeschool are going to tell you it’s brilliant because it is the path they have chosen. But you actually need to listen to the people who were homeschooled as kids as to how they feel about it. And none of the adults I know who were home schooled are happy about it. Most would never say that directly to their parents either, because they know the pain it would cause. But they are pretty messed up about it and it has negatively affected their relationship with their parents.

I would also personally consider it outside the norm. I don’t know anyone who has been home schooled, and until coming on mumsnet last year, I honestly didn’t know it existed in the Uk. I knew it to be an American thing.

@PurpleBugz that's a really honest, balanced post. Thank you

but you wouldn't if your kids' social circle revolved around kids who were school-educated.
I worked as a tutor for home schooled kids for while, and it is far more of a 'thing' than you might think.

I've met adults who are very successful and stable who were homeschooled

There are also huge numbers of people who have difficulties after school.

You obviously have a strong bias against home ed, which is obviously your right, but that's not data.

@Alternat
every adult I’ve met who was home schooled is a bit odd and socially awkward.

Funny you should say that as I was just remembering what Grace Dent said about home educated interns. She said she could spot them a mile off as they were usually too naive and trusting. Having never had to deal with nasty, spiteful peers they wouldn't recognise subtle and not so subtle negative intentions. Some people are not nice and you have to learn to navigate that.

I do think the OP needs to get her head out of the clouds and consider that she might be doing this for herself, not her DD. On the basis of no recent experience, she's castigating a whole system and probably limiting her DD's educational opportunities before they've even started. She could well afford independent education if that fits in with her beliefs.

I think there’s a big “alternative” lifestyle view held by quite a few who HE. Also a huge distrust of “authority”.

They used to lbe visited by an experienced teacher and were offered guidance and advice from the LA. Some just wanted dc to play all day whilst parents did very little. We used to send them detailed advice on how to improve the outcome for their DCs. A few were brilliant at it but most just didn’t went to engage with society and kept their children separate too. The children didn’t seem to have friends in the same way they are built up at school but the HE parents did meet regularly as play was at the heart of what they did. Most could not be bothered to do much to be honest. It clearly wasn’t good enough for most dc and the dc really had no say in it.

Most primary schools have happy children. Most HE parents curate a narrative that suits their choices. The children just get caught up in it. I accept a few dc are better suited to being at home but it’s a tiny minority.

but you wouldn't if your kids' social circle revolved around kids who were school-educated.
I worked as a tutor for home schooled kids for while, and it is far more of a 'thing' than you might think.

exactly this. I’m based in Medway, our local Home Ed Facebook group has almost 2,000 members. There are home ed sessions EVERYWHERE - trampolining, multiple forest schools, farm schools, ninja warrior, swimming classes etc. many of which have waiting lists. It is a huge community in what is actually just one small part of Kent. All of the children in my son’s friendship group attend forest schools and farm schools and have tutors and have at least one or two sports activities a week. They make strong friendships. It’s not cheap, but it also doesn’t compare at all to private school fees in this part of the country.

I have no special knowledge on this, only general life experience, which is that it's good for a child to be exposed to a variety of situations, people, perspectives, to allow them to build up their abilities and resilience, and give them variety in their life and the benefit of a work/life balance (i.e. A nice contrast between home life and school life). That said, if I thought our daughter wasn't flourishing in school and there were no better local options, I'd consider homeschooling too.

I’ve met people and made friends from all walks of life eg online, through hobbies, at work. Not a single one has been home schooled. Just saying that’s my personal experience.

I felt similarly to you when my son was a toddler. We had also done a lot of "attachment parenting" - bedsharing, extended breastfeeding, I was a SAHP etc. and it felt wrong to suddenly leave him for hours and hours every day. I got deep into the philosophy of home ed and was very enthusiastic about it.

Home ed started out OK - there was a big overlap between people doing the sort of "crunchy" parenting I had done with people who home ed-ed (though there were also a fair few people with more "fringe" beliefs eg freebirthers, anti-vaxxers etc). I didn't feel that I completely fitted in with the local home ed groups, but there wasn't a lot of choice as this was around 10 years ago so HE was less popular and we live in a semi-rural area.

Turns out my son (and probably also me) is ND. As he got to 4 or 5 he started to really not fit in with the other kids at HE groups. He wasn't unkind to other kids, but he didn't really play on their level. They began to exclude him, and a few would be verbally unkind, calling him weird and so on. The parents didn't really care - if I mentioned anything the response would be "well she can play with who she likes" or "my child would never say anything like that". We would go to groups for 2 hours and not be spoken to by anyone (actually the people I found the friendliest were the religious HE-ers, even though we are atheist).

My son still didn't want to try school, and academic work was not a problem. We would do maths and English every day and then the rest we "unschooled". He's smart and curious so I didn't have any concerns there. But we were both very socially isolated. It was hard for me to do anything social because I always had my child with me, and the people I thought would be our community were shunning us because their kids didn't want to play with mine (and also I think some didn't think we were "alternative" enough, eg we aren't vegan, I insisted my child wear shoes, we did some set work everyday etc).

When he was 7 my son decided he did want to try school. I had to do a complete 180 on what I'd thought schools were (and been made to think by consuming a lot of antischool media on online groups, blogs, books etc). We looked at a few local schools and found one that seemed a good fit and had a caring philosophy.

My son still didn't really have any "friends" at primary but was made to feel part of a community. In the playground other kids weren't allowed to just exclude him or tell him he's not allowed to speak to them. I am happier too as I have been able to get back into work.

I often hear about homeschooling being great for ND kids but that wasn't our experience at all. Routine and what homeschoolers call the "forced socialization" of school has actually been really good for us.