How common is it for a school place to be withdrawn?

[parentseekingadvice]

We're on the edge of the usual max distance for admission to our first choice primary, which is always oversubscribed. We were lucky to get ds1 into it a few years back. Need to put in the application for ds2 shortly. Good news is around half the places typically go to siblings before opening up to everyone on the basis of distance. School admission policy is that the older sibling must be enrolled at the point that younger sibling starts (not just when you apply). We are considering moving the older sibling for the start of next term, but nothing is firmed up yet, just an idea at this stage. My questions are:

1. If an offer is received based on a sibling link on offer day, which is accepted, but then the older sibling is subsequently moved before the start of term, how common would it be for council's to withdrawn an accepted offer because of the change of sibling link status? I understand that LA's could technically withdraw the place for the younger sibling (apparently an old version of the admissions code prevented this, but the latest one doesn't) but I have no feel for whether they do take this measure in practice.

2. If they did revisit the offer and decide that the sibling link is broken, would younger sibling be kicked out and then treated as a late application, or would they first look at distance and whether it is less than the longest distance for offered places without sibling link, in which case would they then simply maintain the place based on distance. Or do you first have to be added to a waiting list, then processed accordingly?

Thanks in advance. Any experiences would be appreciated. Threads on this topic typically only get created when there is a problem, not a smooth experience, so hard to gauge the average experience.

It's not a problem though is it? It's a choice you'll make. If you move DC1 they may well withdraw the place for DC2.

How would you feel if your DC missed out because a silting that didn't actually meet the criteria was allowed to keep their place?

DS1 must be enrolled - on the school register on the first day of the term, ie Sept 2024. If he's not, you don't meet the criteria. It's simple

If someone broke the rules and your child didn't get a place you would be furious but you are willing to do the same to met your own needs

@parentseekingadvice I think you need to be asking admissions experts like @prh47bridge what the legal position is on this, rather than how common it is. If it is legal to withdraw the place in these circumstances then admissions authorities will do it.

If they withdraw it, but the legality is questionable, then you can appeal on that basis.

Will the older sibling be going into Year 12?

If you plan to move ds1 why not name that school ahead of the current one for ds2. Then you could make a decision after Easter based on the allocation. Most families prefer a single school for ease of school runs, synced holidays and inset days etc.

The Admissions Code is clear that there are only three reasons a place can be withdrawn once it has been offered - the offer was made in error, or the applications was fraudulent or deliberately misleading, or the parent has failed to accept the offer in a reasonable time.

OP's LA says there are five reasons they will withdraw offers - the three listed above plus change of circumstances (e.g. change of address or sibling leaving the school) and a place being offered off the waiting list of a higher preference. These two additional reasons should not be there. They cannot legitimately withdraw a place for either reason. If a place is withdrawn, a well-trained appeal panel should restore it.

Before withdrawing an offer on the basis of a fraudulent or misleading application, the admission authority is required by the Admissions Code to check to see if the child would have been offered a place had the correct information been used. Logically, this should also apply if they withdraw a place due to a change in circumstances. However, this LA clearly thinks the Admissions Code does not apply to them and says that parents need to reapply if an offer is withdrawn due to a misleading application or a change of circumstances.

Unfortunately, this is by no means the only LA that seems to think it can ignore the Admissions Code and make up its own rules.

Hi @prh47bridge is very right - but TBH you are sayng that you know you are moving your older child and that would therefore mean that you are being fraudulent.

In our authority, we may withdraw and offer or a place if the sibling is no longer attending. We would look at the full circumstances and make a decision based on that.. eg older child has EHCP and it was felt a specialist provision would be more appropriate - this would not be seen as a choice by the parent. But to simply move the older child because you prefer anther school we would look more closely and possibly withdraw as a fraudulent one.

I would expect that a place would only be withdrawn if you had been offered a place that you would not have been offered without the sibling - so in effect, yes they would check the distance and if you would have received an offer based on distance they would not withdraw.

Withdrawing offers due to changes of circumstance is more common - boroughs cite the fraudulent application rule. This has been discussed at length across London with a split among London authorities, those who think it is fine - and those who dont believe a change of circumstance to be fraud. Kinsgton School Admissions have a whole thing about it on their website and will withdraw.

@parentseekingadvice you will have to speak to the admission authority for the school involved - no one on here can know exactly what they will say, only what we think they should say.

I represented a parent at an appeal in London where she lived in rented accommodation and had been forced to move after being offered a primary school place. The LA argued that her application was deliberately misleading. I pointed out that she had no idea when she applied that she was going to be forced to move and that, under the LA's rules, it was the only address she could have used on her application. We won.

I think it is wrong that Local Authorities are doing this! We have residents who have fallen foul of the rule in other boroughs, through no fault of their own, and we have offered to provide any support we can for their appeals.

I just wanted to warn OP that although the code only gives the three ways in which an application can be withdrawn, authorities are increasingly using the fraud one to withdraw offers/applications from those who have changed circumstances.

In this case though OP knows she wants to move the older child and so this would be a fraudulent use of the sibling link.

Our local authority withdrew a primary place because the child had moved house after the application was made. The new address was slightly further than other children who did not get offered a place.

It got quite nasty when other parents complained to LA and the place was withdrawn. They appealed, along with a few others and all got in on appeal but it was a horrible time for all the families.

Many thanks all for the replies - so many in such a short space of time. I am very grateful. I want to clarify that I don't have a pre-defined plan to move my older child, but there are good reasons why that may change in future (it's a personal mater, but valid reasons, not simply that we prefer another school). So whilst I know of the possibility of a future move, I really wanted to understand whether it was safer to omit the sibling link from the application (knowing it may be broken in future) or to include it hoping that distance would be factored in as a second measure should the link be broken. The responses on here have been helpful as has a conversation I have had with the LA in question.

I asked the op whether the older child was moving into Year 12 because in our LA there are schools that seem to have this type of sibling clause to try and prevent use of the link if the elder child moves to a different sixth form or college. It seems unfair because the elder child's sixth form place will be dependent on their grades in late August, and also on their course preferences (which may change after the younger child's application is made). I can imagine older siblings feeling pressurised into staying on at their current school, just so their younger sibling can get a place.

We have today just had the shock of receiving this email!!
Do you think we have the right to appeal her case?
It has come to our attention that a house move has taken place, and you are now residing at ** (new address) As detailed on your secondary school application outcome, the offers we make are provisional. If you move house before your child starts school, you must tell us. If this means you are no longer entitled to the place it will be withdrawn.

We can see from our internal checks; the house move took place at towards the end of August. Based on your new address, (childs name) is not able to keep the offer at .... School. There are children on the waiting list with a higher priority than (childs name) at this time. The school agree that the offer is to be removed. You must not send her back to ..... School. The school have been instructed her last day will be today, 12th September 2024.

As you did not tell the team about the move as instructed, we would consider this as misleading information. In line with the school admission code, where an offer is withdrawn on the basis of misleading information, the application must be considered afresh, and you will have the right of appeal.

The team will be working towards locating another school place for (childs name )as her preferred school is currently full at this time. We will confirm an outcome to you shortly.

Regards

School Admissions Team
Children's Services and Skills
Solihull Council

We moved house 6 days before term started (year 7 new school) and within a day of being in our new house we applied for a new school within our catchment area. She is currently 1st on that waiting list and ultimately where we would like to send her.
However the school where we were accepted and is only 4 miles away is now out of catchment area. Her sibling still goes to the primary school next door and we are keen to keep them their for the last year 6 so are doing the school drop off that way anyway.
I can't believe we can receive this email in this wording accusing us of deceiving them which we have not done we are open and transparent and have been honest throughout. But to effectively kick out a child 2 weeks into a new school because we moved house 6 days before school starts is to me shocking.
Do we have grounds for appeal?
Many thanks for any advice on advance

Sorry no particular advice but yes have known of a few kids leaving within first half term due to place being withdrawn - so they can do this and do

I would suggest that you start your own thread.

They can withdraw, it is questionable, but it happens. You may not be allowed to appeal though.

You can appeal the decision not to offer, but you were offered and the place is being taken away.

They are saying that it was a fraudulent application. Which in effect makes your application invalid so therefore no right to appeal.

Your application is being treated like a new application based on your current address - then offered the right to appeal, but the appeal would be based on the new application and the panel cannot consider the old invalidated one.

You can try though as you LA may not interpret it the way ours does.

Being “open and transparent” would have involved informing them of the house move, as per their stated policy.
You didn’t do this so your application has been deemed fraudulent. No chance of appeal.

Start a new thread @laworiwo - tag in @prh47bridge

I can't see it would be withdrawn though. It wasn't a fraudulent application.

• Being “open and transparent” would have involved informing them of the house move,

She told them the day after they moved...

Where does she say that?

@Laworiwo I am not surprised to see this is Solihull. They seem to believe that the law doesn't apply to them.

This letter is unlawful from beginning to end. Offers are not conditional. The Admissions Code is clear that, once an offer is made on National Offers Day, there are limited grounds on which it can be withdrawn. You moving house is not one of those grounds. Misleading information is one of them, but that is specifically about the application being fraudulent or deliberately misleading. They can regard moving house after the offer is made as misleading all they like, but it doesn't mean the application was misleading. If you appeal and get a properly trained appeal panel you should win.

Thankyou very much for your response it is very reassuring.
Are you from a legal background?
They are suggesting we have been fraudulent in some way. We didn't 100% know we were moving house until we had exchanged contracts which was late August 3 days between exchange and completion. When do you suppose they are suggesting we should have informed them?!
Thx everyone much appreciated

I try not to say too much about myself, but you can work out a few things about me if you look at where I post.

You clearly haven't been fraudulent. They can only withdraw the offer if your application was fraudulent or deliberately misleading. When you applied in October, you applied from the only address you could use. Your application was not fraudulent nor was it deliberately misleading.

Could you let me know if you have dealt with solihull before? And won an appeal based on similar facts? Thanks in advance

I've dealt with most LAs before. I'm not searching my records to say when I last dealt with a Solihull case. However, I have helped parents win appeals on similar facts.

"If you appeal and get a properly trained appeal panel you should win."

If it is an LA-run appeals service, the appeals panel will have been trained by the LA, which doesn't bode well.

No chance of appeal.

That's bollocks.