20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

If there is no extra funding how will Labour fund any public services to a greater degree than now?

@EasternStandard the million dollar question…

Labour won’t risk raising taxes for fear of alienating donors and a great swathe of high earners.

We all have a huge Covid debt to pay down. Without raising income significantly it remains a mystery as to how the magic funding for Health and Education becomes affordable or even possible.

Errr, dunno, I haven’t read their entire manifesto, but this is presumably one policy amongst many that wouldn’t transform public service funding on its own, and would pay for a few extra teachers in the optimistic scenario!

My point was that not all policies are about revenue. Fox hunting ban and allowing same sex couples to marry/have civil partnerships were about society, not £

Not being on the PTA doesn't mean you do nothing in the community but this is getting completely off topic. The point is whether people with kids at private school would suddenly care a lot about other children's education as much as their own if they could not longer afford the private fees. I think no but obviously could be completely wrong.

the million dollar question it is indeed and yes to the rest

@SheilaFentiman I don’t mind if the penny drops that there’s no extra funding coming up

But these policies are window dressing to cover that up, and that’s why I think it is very poor policy as it damages a sector in that attempt

@EasternStandard but the political purpose IS to “damage” (less emotively, shrink) the private school sector.

@RunSlowTalkFast I didn't say they would care as much about others but maybe they would learn that helping others would also benefit their own kids.

I live in hope. And will also be voting heart and soul for anything that contributes to levelling the educational playing field if only a little.

Well that I disagree with, we could do the same with any other sector but people feel quite good about children taking the brunt so it’s a goer

With no economic benefit you’ve got the same funding for public services so what’s the point of that?

It’s all downside

I will be voting the same way but I'm just not convinced it will make much difference I live in a Tory stronghold, fully selective schooling area so I'm a bit jaded and cynical.

Pay rises would help attract more teachers. It’s now one of the only professions where you physically have to travel to work every single working day. Yes it gets good holidays and the pensions good but the trade off is horribly intense hours every week of term. It needs investment and this can help. It won’t solve everything but it will help.

the political purpose IS to “damage” (less emotively, shrink) the private school sector. I don't think it is. Research suggests most parents won't remove their kids.

Overall, this is a niche issue which will only change the behaviour of a minority of people using the private sector anyway. A lot of private schools have plans to cut their operating costs to compensate for the vat rise.

If Labour put it in their manifesto, they've a right to try it.

@RunSlowTalkFast i raise money for and help when I can at a local state primary as a volunteer . The head teacher there is inspiring and wants the world for her kids. Sadly no one tells the parents. A good example, she has hot nutritious food served daily. She caters for all diets and religions. She has prioritised that spend in her budget because of the likelihood that this is the only hot food a child will get in a day. No packed lunches are allowed so there is no discrimination as to who has what etc. (plus packed lunches she has previously witnessed include cold Macdonald’s). She teaches all the kids table manners and how to use a knife and fork. The only complaint from parents? ‘Why can’t my (insert name) have what they like for lunch? It’s not fair.’ She’s installed washing machines at school because very obviously some kids do not have access to clean clothes or underwear. These issues run through to education. It is exhausting for her trying to give her students a better start.

So yes, as a private school parent, I do care. And I do help. I’m not asking for a medal, but you did ask.

It’s not all downside, it make a political point that is in line with Labour’s philosophy. The privileged pay more to help others less fortunate and the vast majority of children at indies are extremely privileged

She sounds wonderful. It’s so sad that she has to do this.

It’s a political gimmick that gets people going

Due to severe lack of any funding answers

The Labour Party haven’t said anything about pay rises though. They’ve muttered something about a £2,400 retention bonus, but I can’t see that making a huge difference in whether teaching looks an attractive career. The funding is going on new teachers, not a meaningful pay increase for existing teachers. Money for that would need to come from elsewhere - increased taxation or decreased spending elsewhere.

Do you not understand what I've been saying? I'm not criticising people for spending their money. I'm sceptical that the language used when discussing these things won't cause more people to disagree with you. And I think quite a lot of that language is bordering on offensive to be honest. Particularly 'hard-working' comments (can't remember if you've made any of them or not).

If someone commented on a thread about handbags that they sacrificed hugely in order to buy one or worried that the drawbridge was being raised on other people being able to buy one in the future because the price was raised I would roll my eyes as much as I do as on threads about private school fees. Most threads like that are just 'what's a nice handbag to buy for £xxx' though so not quite the same.

The truth is that there is always going to be a cut off. It's a shame for those who are now facing the possibility of being on the wrong side of that but most of us are. There is a state funded alternative. I'm not picking on you specifically but yours was just the last comment I read that summed up these types of comments. Let's leave it at that.

Actually I can't leave it at that 😂 The problem I have is sacrifice is a loaded word isn't it? You wouldn't say you are sacrificing buying a chocolate bar because you only have money for a coffee. It's just budgeting isn't it? Choosing what optional product to spend your money on. I'm assuming you're not actually missing meals to pay for school fees

I disagree with this policy. It will just lead to the most competitive state schools (top
comprehensives, grammars and church schools) becoming even more competitive and the top private schools as well (as people chase the financially secure ones with all bells and whistles).
State education and expectations in England are good. Children’s academic futures are far more determined by the level of education their parents have and parental wealth plus innate ability than what school they go to. All the research shows that.

Anyone worried about paying fees should move their kids whilst they still can. Others can move to Dubai etc if they want to pay less tax.
Fact of the matter is Western economies with ageing populations and high expectations are screwed post Covid. There is just as much dissatisfaction in Eg France and Germany too. If you don’t want to share your earned wealth to a disproportionate extent you have to move to a place where high earners pay less proportionately. If you want to stay, then you will pay.

Yeah, it's not like anyone's going to take their kids out of private and send them to the local Oasis Academy is it 🤣 They'll use the money they save on fees to move to catchments of grammars and already top performing comprehensives, go to church every Sunday for awhile, pay lawyers to bring discrimination cases against church schools, pay for tutors, self register for exams etc etc and all the things you can do when you're already on a good income because you both work full-time to afford school fees and are going to suddenly have a spare 20k per year x however many kids you have kicking around. They're certainly not going to give any of it to the bursary funds anymore or join the PTA.

Meanwhile the ghetto comps will get more ghetoized.

Laughable attempt at a policy.

I genuinely don't think they will do it but yeah it will knock us out too.

There are jobs in finance, tech, law internationally where the employer pays the schools fees so I would be looking at those if I had to pay extra and a ton of tax as well. At least until the DC were educated. That is if you prioritise private education over other stuff or feel you can’t get a good state place. There are lots of successful private schools overseas now. Like others have said, nobody is going to listen and definitely not the general public and Labour is going to win. So if it is a real problem for your family then act accordingly. Just be aware that if you are not tax resident in U.K. before uni for 3 years you pay overseas fees (again there are ways around it though if you leave on a temporary overseas placement) and some countries offer better value uni education too now.
Given the huge cost of private education and student debt at uni in England and tax burden to repay, it is something parents really need to plan for very carefully now.

@EnglishMenHaveTails I’m sorry you’ve taken offence at the language used but you don’t know everyone’s circumstances on here. Other concerned parents who are using schools specifically for SEN reasons have to put up with phrases like ‘Tiny Violins’ ( I don’t think this was you but you get the gist) and that’s ok? I’ve sacrificed not by ‘budgeting’ or ‘taking a uk holiday’ but by taking some deeply unsatisfying jobs to pay for school fees because my personal happiness is secondary to my child’s.

please don’t assume all private school parents are a cliched group of people. We have vastly different circumstances and vastly differing reasons for accessing the private education sector.

I’ll leave it at that.

that class of 30 becomes, what, 40

No-pupil numbers are falling, so that’s unlikely.