Private Vs State school

[Ilikepinacoladass]

I know this is a controversial subject. But genuinely trying to decide if private is worth it.

I see loads of comments saying things like I didn't send mine to private because I went to a comp and was at the same uni as loads of privately educated people and got same results etc.

But surely the GCSE / A-level results speak for themselves? Lots from the comps won't have even made it to uni whereas maybe they would have if they'd gone to a private school?

A-level results from 2023
56.5% got A/A* - local private school
39% got A/A* - local grammar school
20% got A/A* - local state school

I don't want to waste money, but I do want the best for my child (as we all do!) and trying to decide if having more local friends / a free education / short walk to school etc (state school) would be worth the potential loss in opportunities a private school would offer.

To broadly generalise - and I say this as someone with three kids and various friends with kids in private/state/grammar - if you are in London, private is probably going to be the best option until sixth form.

Thanks to years of poor government, the state system is struggling immensely - particularly in London where schools are over-subscribed, under-funded and might have a higher number of challenging pupils. Yes, there are amazing schools like QE or Henrietta Barnett but even if a child makes it through the stiff competition, the pressure once ‘in’ is immense. Academic privates are also pressured, but tend to be a bit more nurturing and well rounded.

At sixth form level, things change a bit. Less disruption because kids who don’t want to be there are no longer there! More spaces free up in the ‘better’ grammar schools and sixth form colleges. Plus, kids are then doing the subjects they (hopefully) love and are good at - in some ways it’s ‘easier’ to get good results at this stage than it is in lower years.

My advice? If you are in London and can afford a really excellent private school, send them there until sixth form - and then move to the state sector for A-levels.

OP:
”A-level results from 2023
56.5% got A/A* - local private school
39% got A/A* - local grammar school
20% got A/A* - local state school”

are you in a grammar area then or is your “local grammar” superselective? It makes a big difference to how you view these figures. In grammar counties, the top 25% go to the “local grammar” and the others that can’t pay for private go to the secondary modern. By this calculation you would expect the secondary modern’s results to be hugely different to private and to an extent the local grammar. Not all local grammars are equal - some are failing badly on many measures.

The other thing to be aware of is the negative side of privilege. This isn’t talked about enough. There will be some ostracising/pisstaking when not mixing with others from the same background and there may well be some discrimination in recruitment to both unis and organisations - those that aren’t recruitment blind (many aren’t).

The proportion of state school students, postcode and social background

@Moglet4 Are you talking about contextual offers? Because that's not how they work. I'm pretty sure there aren't any quotas.

It’s disingenuous to suggest that certain privileged unis (eg Exeter, Oxbridge) aren’t looking to limit the number of private school offers. You only have to look at the state school % over the last 7 years to see how they are targeting state pupils and limiting private school offers. I have first hand experience of one which offered someone I know a much lower conditional offer because their 5 bedroom detached house is included in a low progression postcode and they don’t attend private school.

@Splety what do you mean by "much lower"?

The OFS has been very clear- universities are supposed to be aiming for 75% state school pupils. As for contextual offers, that is mostly how they approach the ‘social background’ requirement. Most of them, especially the Russell Group universities, are not hitting that target but all universities have moved towards it, some quite significantly. This is to the detriment of private pupils and why many parents in grammar areas move their children in 6th form from private to grammar. It is being revised this year, though. The postcode consideration, for example, will be scrapped.

I'd also be concerned about little one having to do a full day at school and then have a tutor at home too

Depending on what private school you pick you might end up with a tutor also. Where I am in London I know several children at super selective private schools and all use tutors (not continuously, for periodic bursts). There is peer pressure to do so or your child will be "behind".

@Moglet4 "This is to the detriment of private pupils and why many parents in grammar areas move their children in 6th form from private to grammar."

Ah. Yes, many people do misunderstand how the system works!

I see what you mean but at least in that case hopefully it would be a choice to have a tutor to further extend the learning, rather than to get to an average level? That said I wouldn't want DC in a very pressurised environment where tutors are expected and if it turned out to be like that would be looking to move him!

@roses2 is this common at private schools? Genuinely interested, the one we've picked is selective and in London but I think one of the less pressurised ones!

I've never heard of anyone being tutored in London's private schools! Tutored in order to get in in the first place, yes - but not once you are at the school.

The stats don't speak for themselves. Regular schools will have a lower percentage than private because of the children of people who don't give af about education/alcoholics/drug addicts etc there are practically no children like that at private school because private school costs a fuck load of money that those people usually don't have.

Grammar schools are meant for smart kids so of course they will get better grades.

Just send your child to regular school and don't waste your money.

We've had kids at private and state. Our privately educated DC has turned out well but so have the other two. Private one has slightly more social polish, but that could easily be a personality thing.

Re sport, we found ours got much higher quality coaching from town clubs than from private school. Might have been a different situation if they were A team material, but as B team, they got any old history/science teacher that vaguely knew the rules, whereas town teams, if you do your research and choose well, are much better. On the flip side, as a B team standard he wouldn't have found it easy to stay in a good quality town team throughout teen years, whereas the private school at least forced him to find other forms of exercise, and luckily one of those has stuck with him into adulthood.

Teachers were a mixed bag at both schools. We had to pay for a maths tutor for privately educated DC because of a run of bad teachers and bad luck with staffing. Bright DC in state school had slightly more low-level disruption in classes generally though, and less bright DC in state school, in lower sets, had a lot more disruption.

Add to that that uni offers will often reflect the different educational backgrounds of applicants, so even if private does notch you up a grade, that doesn't necessarily do you any favours.

For me, the private vs state debate comes down to parental availability. If both parents are working all hours and can't take kids to extra-curricular clubs, private is a good option. If you can do the taxiing to activities yourself, you'll have a wider range of options than any school can offer, so private doesn't offer enough advantages to be worth the money.

Private also has the potential disadvantage of you coming out of school a bit more sheltered (and possibly arrogant) than the average kid. The old boy network, apart from in a very few schools like Eton, is not really a thing. Family's social connections are much more significant.

@Leah5678 Yep. It's all about selection. Overt or covert.

Eg BBC instead of AAB

@Splety contextual offers are 2 grades down. So possibly ABC for AAB. Do you have a problem with contextual offers? Your 5 bed detached house in a significantly disadvantaged postcode is obviously not a common occurrence.

Suggest you do your research properly - not all unis are the same. This uni offers a range of grades and in this instance it was as I stated.

No issue at all with contextual offers. Worth being aware of it though if considering private education.

@Splety "No issue at all with contextual offers."

Well, you obviously do if you're talking about limiting private school offers and quoting cases so far fetched that they must be approaching one offs!

'For me, the private vs state debate comes down to parental availability. If both parents are working all hours and can't take kids to extra-curricular clubs, private is a good option.'

Massive draw for our situation to be honest. He can do his clubs straight after school, then after school club, before we pick up. Otherwise not sure how we'd fit them in, would have to be late in the evening or weekends, which are already split between his dad and me.

The school says on website they encourage the most able students to do out of school sports clubs so at least there is transparency there and they realise that for really specialist coaching this will be out of school. Don't mind doing that if he seems to excel in one particular area! Even the fact they do swimming lessons every week from reception feels like a weight of my mind as one less thing to have to fit in at weekend!

lol not sure what your beef is 😂

I think contextual offers when properly used are brilliant

they aren’t brilliant for anyone paying for private education

the one I quoted is not a one off despite your gaslighting minimising

Just trying to make sure the OP is aware of the facts around uni admissions

It’s so personal and depends on too many variables it’s impossible to answer “state or private”. Sounds like private is best for your circumstances (one child two busy jobs etc). For us with two near a high performing single sex state state made sense.

Also with private as a parent you are treated better. My lovely friend is a pretty high maintenance parent and the state primary couldn’t really meet her needs/regular phone calls etc. She’s much better off with kids in private as she is essentially a client and gets the responses she wants from the school as she’s paying for it.

Also most decent state schools don’t get contextual offers either ours certainly doesn’t. Dd is year 13 was most put out that her pal at her school but who lives in a small town outside our city (albeit in a very large middle class house 😀) and goes to her school got an offer of BBB whilst Dd has to get AAB. It’s done by postcode as well as school.

@TheaBrandt - coming on to say exactly this. I think that a lot of parents (particularly those with DC at private schools) misunderstand how contextual offers work - it's simply not the case that it will be 'easier' to get into a good university if you are applying from a state school than a private school.

If you take a kid at Westminster and a kid at QE Boys both trying to get into Oxford, say - the same grade requirement will be offered. But for a kid coming from a more challenged state school where the average results of the cohort are far lower across the board, the grade requirement will be lower. This is right and fair.

If the Westminster applicant and the QE boys applicant both achieve the same grades, then it's fair to say that the QE boys applicant might have a very very small advantage in SOME cases, coming from the state sector - but at that point it's really down to a number of factors...not just the school the applicant went to.