Is anyone else worried about the effect of rising private school fees on state schools?

[BabyIcecream]

Where I live there already aren't enough school places. Three big state secondary's, one is catholic, they are all over subscribed and bursting at the seams using old buildings with not enough funding.

Ive seen reports that at some private schools upto a third of pupils might leave if the fees go up due to VAT.

I'm worried about all these extra pupils needing places, DS already finds his school overcrowded and whilst I don't agree with private education putting extra pupils into the state system is just going to further disadvantage our children.

Unless money raised by increasing private schools costs is going to be used to fund state education? Does anyone know?

It’s very naive to think abolishing the private school system in the U.K. will both improve state schools and stick it to the rich. What about boarding schools, are they going to be abolished too? (Not that I like boarding schools but military also use them, not just the mega rich).

If you want it to be "comprehensive" and equal, you not only need to get rid of private schools, you need to get rid of religious schools too! In our town, it's the two huge religious schools that cause the divide, one is Catholic, the other CofE, the remaining schools don't stand a chance and are both failing schools. The "parents who care" ensure their kids get into the better religious schools, leaving the other kids to struggle in the crap comps. If we want equality, then we need to get rid of all "different" types of schools and have a genuine "one size fits all" structure without any form of selection, whether by religion nor finances, nor academic ability (grammars etc) - all that selection needs to be stopped. Otherwise we're not going to have any kind of equality, and how is it fair to allow/encourage selection by religion when we effectively ban selection by finances!

True, but the PP was talking about not having an issue with Private schools in general. I was just pointing out why people tend to object to them. I wasn't really addressing the VAT issue (because she wasn't).

I doubt that there will be a mass exodus but even if there was, they only account for about 6% of all school kids. With a falling birth rate etc we can absorb them into the state sector. As has been mentioned the IFS report showed a net gain for the country, so no, I’m not worried.

Is that Brexit, or the pandemic? Some people have learnt that their very important city job can be done anywhere and have moved out of a London as a result, or perhaps both?

During Covid, US states had lockdown and some homeschooling were really dire, there were groups of parents cobbling together the best specialist tutors online on for their small group of kids. Their grades rocketed and it seems rather a Victorian way do schooling within a subset of parents.

VAT proposal are for private schools but no VAT on tutoring. So you get parents setting up homeschool groups, with top tutors. Music lessons from Royal College Musicians, phD physics from Imperial or GCSES English tutors for 11 years old to stretch and go way ahead. Fairness is not baked into education systems.

VAT collection on private schools must be ring-fenced for education. Public needs to see where the cash flow is going.

Someone please explain how a private school is a charity and therefore should keep its status? Because I don’t see how it can be justified.

the really rich will be able to absorb the extra cost and so the kids in private will then be the richest and most privileged of all

I don’t think the majority of people give a shit if it’s just the ‘really rich’ in private schools or the ‘really rich plus a few less rich’, or not tbh.

The falling birth rate is such that accommodating the private school kids who will be crowbarred out of the pay-for-privilege schooling should be increasingly easy.

And the good news is that it might reinvest their parents back into a conversation with the state of things and what should be done about it.

Yep I would also add if we are going to have equal schooling then they need to scrap faith schools and catchment areas and allocate places by a lottery

What, no catchments and a lottery system...should make for an interesting school run. 🤣

It’s a woeful policy. But some like it because of the denying others part

Undermining a successful U.K. sector for a vote. It’s depressing

Agree with @cellarst with the constant race to the bottom, especially if it means getting rid of net contributors

Race to the bottom? How fucking rude to describe state schooling as the shit tip you end up on when you are deprived of private schooling.

thats because it cannot be justified- but people want to make out it’s grossly unfair they pay their way properly. Nothing against private schools, I went to one, my children don’t- because I can’t afford it, cest la vie. But yes they should pay tax.

I know- imagine having to be educated by the state, imagine having to be like every other schmuch applying for 6 local schools. It’s like forcing everyone to
shop at aldi 🤣

Because they offer bursaries and free places to those that are clever enough to pass the entrance exam but where the parents are unable to afford the fees. These free places are paid by the fees from other parents.

Also by opening their facilities to state schools in the area, particularly sporting facilities.

It’s also just a massive distraction from the real problem of chronic underfunding in education and a backdrop of spiralling inflation and rising costs for schools. Not going to be fixed by VAT on private schools, as someone pointed out, it is 1% of the total budget in a best case scenario. This is all about politics and creating wedge issues/vote winners.

How are Labour really going to improve education?

And this makes them charities?

You’ve over egged it a bit there. We use state and it’s been excellent for us.

This idea you can keep ‘going for the rich’ for votes won’t help us overall. We still need net contributors not a constant drive towards a country with fewer. Who will shoulder the tax burden then?

Some countries really do offer tax rebates (not what is happening here which is not a rebate) for private and it takes numbers away from the state, successfully so.

You could also force private schools to earn their charitable status, use the same money to mandate shared facilities 40% of the time for example, more bursary programmes, access to specialist teaching staff for local state schools, subsidised summer schools etc.

Plenty of private schools aren’t charities. Also, the charitable status has nothing to do with the VAT issue.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And this makes them charities?

+++

Actually this is a lot more than what other registered charities provide.

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/16/captain-tom-charity-faces-scrutiny-after-report-of-payments-to-daughter

Certainly in London schools are facing falling rolls so pupils moving from private to state would be good

Here you go:

https://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/the-charitable-status-of-elite-schools-the-origins-of-a-national-scandal

This is a great post.

It’s all very well saying get rid of private schools, or the wealthy will be just fine, but the reality is many families just about cope financially, and many are sent to private schools because of the dire state school options in their catchment.

I went to private secondary school and the current fees there are actually not too different to the nursery I currently pay for. If my nursery fees were to go up 20% , i’d be priced out of work.

My state option is awful, in a rough area with a drug and crime problem. I witnessed some of the crime firsthand when I attended the junior school across the field. I also had to endure physical bullying from boys and the school did nothing. Many kids are sent to private schools due to bullying issues.

Until Labour puts in a viable plan (or any plan at all!) to solve the issues of needing extra spaces, bullying and providing proper education for those with SEN, it’s a ridiculous plan.