Is anyone else worried about the effect of rising private school fees on state schools?

[BabyIcecream]

Where I live there already aren't enough school places. Three big state secondary's, one is catholic, they are all over subscribed and bursting at the seams using old buildings with not enough funding.

Ive seen reports that at some private schools upto a third of pupils might leave if the fees go up due to VAT.

I'm worried about all these extra pupils needing places, DS already finds his school overcrowded and whilst I don't agree with private education putting extra pupils into the state system is just going to further disadvantage our children.

Unless money raised by increasing private schools costs is going to be used to fund state education? Does anyone know?

So it is! Well that's a better stat then isn't it.

Except a great many people argue they want their children to go to grammar or private schools in order to be around other children and families who “value education.” It’s interesting if they have a blind spot here when it comes to recognising that this is partly about establishing the “right” connections for their children and avoiding the “wrong” ones, not just about getting a good education in a vacuum. It may not be as blatant as getting yourself employed at the friend’s firm, but it is disingenuous to pretend being friends with people who already work in a field of interest to you provides you with no advantages whatsoever.

Of course having access to more insider information on what a career is really like has an impact. Of course you do not need to be told where someone went to school or university, or what their parents do, to still be able to spot the tells which enable you to work out what their likely background is. Recruiters do not actually recruit on a completely deaf, dumb and blind basis, after all, and they will inevitably therefore still be subject to bias. Obviously, this could also work in favour of an apprentice bricklayer or hairdresser, but interestingly, a lower proportion of privately educated children aspire to these careers than children in the state sector, so they aren’t so bothered about a potential lack of those connections and advantages.

No.

Firstly, the actual % of kids in private schools is now closer to 6%, not 7%.

Secondly, the fact that the percentage of private school kids among 16-18yos is 20% does not mean that the rate is "really 20%". It means that the rate is still 6%, and that sixth formers make up a really high percentage of the total, implying that the number of kids who are doing this whole thing of "private pre-prep, prep school and private secondary" all the way through is actually even lower than most people think.

The reality that such a high % of private school kids are sixth formers probably implies that the impact of rising fees will be actually less than many are assuming. Because parents will be unwilling to remove kids who are in the middle of A-levels, and most will tend to have the mentality that "it's a very important stage and it's only a couple of years anyway, we'll find the money."

The big impact of rising school fees will be much more about the kids who are doing private school right from the primary stage onwards, esp since many preps and pre-preps are really small and can't do things like merge classes.

We will definitely see more parents opting not to start their kids off in private preps and pre-preps, and when you add the impact of falling birth rates, we'll see some of these schools close.

However, these are, as I suggested above, really a very small % of all kids anyway, and there is likely to be space in state schools in most parts of the country due to the lower birth rates.

Well Gove, supposed Tory King of state schools, having sent his DC to one of the top performing London state schools (which obviously means all state schools are great, irony intended), has promised high quality wrap around care in ALL STATE PRIMARIES. So are both parties going to deliver that to parents and at what cost? How will these be economic to run for all primary schools and will the Government provide funding? Who is going to staff these?

We currently have both free school meals all the way through primary in London for youngest and great quality wrap around care (still using the childcare vouchers left over from Pandemic school closures) on after school club and breakfast here!

The percentage of children in private schools at secondary level in London is much bigger than elsewhere. Because people are scared of knife and gang crime and drugs. And both parties are now scared they cannot fill those expensive state secondary academy places in a few years because there has been an exodus out of London due to astronomical house prices and working from home options.
However, what has it got to do with the rest of the country? Why do both parties still implement policies countrywide based on what happens in London? What does someone using a small prep for wrap around care got to do with what is going on in London? And why should they be punished?

People who can afford prep schools in this country are not the ones being punished. The families being punished are the ones who can't afford to eat, can't afford to wash and dry their clothes so they don't smell and are being turfed out their homes by private landlords

“People who can afford prep schools in this country are not the ones being punished. The families being punished are the ones who can't afford to eat, can't afford to wash and dry their clothes so they don't smell and are being turfed out their homes by private landlords”

In reality that kind of attitude does not work. Because the country and the very poorest rely on those paying high taxes. And if you piss them off, they are not going to earn for you anymore.

The whole tax attack on landlords being the biggest case in point. You cannot have successive governments encourage exponential house price rises thereby getting small time landlords to invest and then not expect them to raise rents when mortgage rates go up? The people now suffering the most are the renters and the government coffers because they have to pay out in housing benefit.

All that is going to happen is that X tech guy coming to the UK to work now as he is specialist is going to demand that his job now pays for private schooling too and the company will set off the added VAT somehow. And the very rich do not care anyway, they are happy that the aspirational lot cannot afford it anymore.
Do you think the NHS is going to keep attracting doctors from overseas and pledge to pay the private secondary school fees in London plus VAT? Can the NHS set the VAT off? It is all such naive thinking. People with great earning potential have options. And they do leave. Just like they did in the late 70s.

And more and more families will indeed leave London if they cannot afford private secondary school due to VAT as well as high house prices. And then these families will pay less tax too probably. Because that is how it works in the real world.

Lots of people posted to the UK rely on private schools.

They bring business and money here. Do we want it?

The honest answer to that in most people’s minds, I suspect, is, “it depends.” There seems to be a certain amount of regret over the number of Russian oligarchs who brought their business here.

I’m not talking oligarchs.

It’s people working for multinationals who are posted to the UK for a couple of years.

I do but mostly I want the sector to be seen as a success, which it is, rather than used as a political gimmick

Many Swiss private schools are expanding, so I suppose our loss will be their gain.

The final word is with the Mayor though.

Even then it depends. Let’s face it, the wheels are falling off the world economy and as a world we are descending into a future of conflict, greed, selfishness and, as a consequence, self-destruction. Our economy has made a virtue out of specialist tax avoidance and even facilitated tax evasion on a massive scale. A few token well-paid employees to help keep that juggernaut going isn’t really going to provide a decent quality of life for the masses, or fund good infrastructure.

Given the shortage of housing many wouldn't. 37% who voted for Brexit and support the Rwanda plan probably wouldn't
People worried about the extent of jetsetters flying in and out might have concerns too.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/

It is income tax and Nics that are the main income of the country. Lots of it coming out of the City of London, whether that appeals to the masses or not. That is the facts as they currently stand.

The facts as currently stated are, as already stated, that the wheels are falling off the world economy and the City contributed every bit as much to our bust as our boom. We have a totally lopsided economy and that has caused massive harm to economic and political stability. We are a country that cannot even commit to large infrastructure projects. Wealthy enclaves surrounded by seas of poverty, failing infrastructure and phenomenally expensive but tax free private education are actually available in a great many countries. We don’t even offer frictionless trade.

So you don’t want business and money coming into the UK?

You just want social housing, benefits and a free for all health service?

People can be thankful to people who have come into the country and do the jobs we don't want to do and worked really hard during COVID. I think many people respect aspiring migrant families whose children went to state schools and worked hard raising the bar in those schools

It wasn't very long ago that British businesses were world leading and people haven't got their heads round our dependence on foreign investment. People see business leaders sending their profits abroad to tax havens and giving donations to the conservative party while our salaries shrink in real terms. So the current state of play is not working for most people.

Which business leaders are sending their money abroad?

Would you like to share names and evidence with us?

According to the Paradise Papers leak, even the Queen’s private funds have been found to be hidden in politically embarrassing places, along with multinationals like Apple and Nike. The UK is a world leader in the assistance of hiding money and assets - no wonder we can only successfully raise tax from sitting duck employees and appear to have enriched and emboldened oligarchs.

oh ok.

Britain was only ever rich because it exploited its colonies. For some reason, people born in Britain somehow think they are still entitled to all this stuff, even if they do not earn it themselves. Someone born in India with nothing knows they have only got hard work and education to raise themselves up. Here they think it is their birth right. And it has changed and people do not want to face the truth and the politicians are too scared to tell them as well. However, if you alienate even more foreign investment and qualified workers who pay a lot of taxes you are going to be even more screwed. It is a small country and only really has education and its own people and history to fall back on. So why go and fuck up one thing you are known for, Education, who cares if it isn’t fair. Nothing is “fair” in life. If you become the laughing stock in Education terms as well, then you won’t even be able to keep attracting all those foreign students who basically fund your unis now as well. So good luck with that one.
We can only tell you that it is a mistake, like Brexit.

Those born with nothing in India will die with nothing. Slumdog Millionnaire was a work of fiction. India does have an aspiring middle class, however, and massive inequality. I’m sure they appreciate British advice on international tax avoidance.

Who is legally obliged to follow policy laid down by central government, or forced to by central government as money comes with strings attached.
For good examples of the latter see LTNs and the ULEZ.