Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Marked as unauthorised and fined

223 replies

anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 12:44

Long story short we booked a family holiday. The majority of it fell over the Easter holidays, but some of it fell the first week back.
In total we were planning to miss 9.5 sessions, which would mean we wouldn't be fined, as it's under 10 sessions.
We had a night flight home and landed at 7am. We live 15 minutes from the airport and had all intentions of getting the children to school that day. When we landed the barrage handlers were on strike and it took 2 hours for our luggage to appear. We phoned school numerous times to update them and to say the children would be late.
We finally got them to school at 9.45am (45 minutes late)
This lateness has now been marked as unauthorised even though it was out of our control and we are being fined £480. It was originally £240 but we are trying to contest it and school haven't been open as it's the holidays so has gone past the 2 weeks early payment amount.
Realistically if this goes to court then do we have a leg to stand on? I believe we should have been marked late or authorised for the 45 minutes they were late to school that day.

OP posts:
RafaistheKingofClay · 03/09/2023 13:13

There’s absolutely no chance of getting this overturned you should have paid as soon as it came in.

School are quite within the rules to mark it as unauthorised since you were on holiday. It was a risk you took when you flew back landing the morning before trying to get the kids to school on time.

GrazingSheep · 03/09/2023 13:13

Were the kids not exhausted?

LittleBearPad · 03/09/2023 13:13

Well you pushed your luck and it backfired. I can’t believe you were going to send children to school after a night flight. Poor things.

Hungryfrogs23 · 03/09/2023 13:15

babyk2023 · 03/09/2023 12:56

Ex attendance officer here.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do here OP. Any holidays that take place during school time are classed as unauthorised absences and the school applies to the LA for a fine. This is a part of the protocol for holidays during term time. The school is doing what is expected of them. The 10 unauthorised absences applies to other unauthorised absences that are non holiday related. The code for an unauthorised holiday related absence is different to that of any other unauthorised absence. Therefore, taking the kids on holiday during term time regardless of the length of time will result in the school requesting a fine.

In regards to the late mark, again, lateness after the register has closed is classed as unauthorised. Had it been a valid reason such as late due to a medical appointment then the code for that would be different. But as the holiday itself wasn't authorised and the lateness was as a result of that (especially after registers closed) it will be classed as unauthorised

All of this.

You tried to work the system and it didn't pay off this time 🤷

But no, you haven't got a leg to stand on. Absence after registers closed is unauthorised unless it is for something like medical appt and as yours was directly related to the unauthorised holiday, it remains unauthorised.

Original poster
anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 13:16

It was only when the education officer said that my son had 14 sessions unauthorised in a month that I found out school had marked him as unauthorised when he was in hospital. Despite me providing a hospital letter and phoning school both days.
So surely I'm within my rights to check that the lateness was marked as unauthorised correctly as well? And I couldn't contact them because they've been closed. Plus the fine arrived 3 months after the absences.

OP posts:
Mammyloveswine · 03/09/2023 13:16

Absolutely shocking that you expect any sympathy!

Easy answer to avoid getting a fine.. don't take your kids out of school during term-time.

rookiemere · 03/09/2023 13:16

anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 13:00

Their attendance is 98% usually. We read every night, hand homework in on time every single week without fail, do all home learning we are asked to do.

Well yes, any decent parent will support their DCs education- it's not some Monopoly get out of Jail free card.

Your DS sickness being marked incorrectly is a different situation and irrelevant here. Your DCs weren't in for registration therefore it was marked as unauthorised absence as that is exactly what it was. I'm not in the teaching profession, but I've heard it's somewhat busy so they are unlikely to be going "oh yes wee Jimmy arrived in at 9.45 after being off for a holiday whilst we were teaching important new topics but it's ok, he always does his homework so we'll not mark it down this time."

You said too you could have avoided the situation by taking two taxis, or even if you had rung the school up in advance of registration time they may have been more amenable.

AmyandPhilipfan · 03/09/2023 13:16

Having worked in schools I can imagine you were the talk of the staff room that day OP! Getting an overnight flight and then taking your kids straight to school?! I know you said they slept on the flight but what if they hadn't? I bet the teachers could not believe you'd brought them to school that day!

Seashellies · 03/09/2023 13:17

noblegiraffe · 03/09/2023 12:49

You tried to game the system and lost.

Yes this! Doesn't sound unreasonable to be honest. Also your comment about teachers saying they wouldn't fine someone on a low income or whatever is a load of guff, teachers don't decide this it's the LA.

Original poster
anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 13:19

Surely unauthorised absence should apply to everyone. I 100% know for sure that 2 children have been off for 10 sessions on holiday and not been fined.
How do they pick and choose? I get that I'll need to pay, but why isn't every parent fined?

OP posts:
Gazelda · 03/09/2023 13:20

Poor kids. What an awful way to end their holiday - uncomfy sleep on an overnight flight, no time to brush teeth, no water bottle/book bag/pe kit etc.

I always feel that I need an easy return to work after a holiday to give me time to re-acclimatise. Lunchtime finish on first day back should be the law.

Lexxxx · 03/09/2023 13:20

You can’t possible 100% know. Don’t be so ridiculous.

Hibiscrubbed · 03/09/2023 13:21

Fight it. The idea of fining parents who want to try to take their children to see a bit of the world at a time they can actually afford and as a result happen to miss a bit of school, which will make precisely fuck all difference to their academic outcomes, is so ludicrous.

BlueKaftan · 03/09/2023 13:22

It’s a stupid system. The government doesn’t own the children and has no right to fine parents for their absence. This is the welfare state in action.

Original poster
anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 13:22

I 100% know that my sons best friend missed 20 sessions when he went to Spain for 2 weeks and wasn't fined. And I know for a fact that both of his parents are on universal credit and don't work.

OP posts:
LookatEsa · 03/09/2023 13:23

there might be a usual practice regarding day’s absence before fine but I wouldn’t be surprised if it could easily be waived to fine for fewer days. Can’t imagine the magistrates being sympathetic including regarding the welfare of children attending straight from the flight. When I was prosecuting for non school attendance we would ask for costs. Not sure if it may apply in your case.

Hibiscrubbed · 03/09/2023 13:23

There’s a lot of very obedient people in here who wouldn’t dream of standing up to the powers that be. It’s a bit sad that people are so obsequious.

Holidays with family and travel are so important. Who gives a shit if they miss a couple of days at school? It won’t make a jot of difference.

Desecratedcoconut · 03/09/2023 13:25

AmyandPhilipfan · 03/09/2023 13:16

Having worked in schools I can imagine you were the talk of the staff room that day OP! Getting an overnight flight and then taking your kids straight to school?! I know you said they slept on the flight but what if they hadn't? I bet the teachers could not believe you'd brought them to school that day!

Oh God, who cares what the teachers said in the staff room? I can't imagine what kind of fragile egos base their decisions on what somebody says about them that they never have to hear.

But clearly the lateness has been correctly codified as an unauthorized absence. Carrying on as though the world owes you a pass because you read to your kids, they don't get sick, you can't handle a luggage trolley and they didn't get a day off during the teacher strikes isn't going to change the outcome.

Desecratedcoconut · 03/09/2023 13:27

anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 13:22

I 100% know that my sons best friend missed 20 sessions when he went to Spain for 2 weeks and wasn't fined. And I know for a fact that both of his parents are on universal credit and don't work.

Are you sure they didn't just phone him in as sick?

jannier · 03/09/2023 13:27

anywherebutthere · 03/09/2023 13:16

It was only when the education officer said that my son had 14 sessions unauthorised in a month that I found out school had marked him as unauthorised when he was in hospital. Despite me providing a hospital letter and phoning school both days.
So surely I'm within my rights to check that the lateness was marked as unauthorised correctly as well? And I couldn't contact them because they've been closed. Plus the fine arrived 3 months after the absences.

You've been told by a poster who knows why keep arguing you went on holiday without permission from school you decided not to pay the fine straight away you need to pay the fine.....why take kids out of school in term time

AnneAnon · 03/09/2023 13:31

Imagine taking your kid out of school for two whole weeks for a holiday. I think that’s terrible.

theskyispurple · 03/09/2023 13:31

Replying because I can't believe the lack of support you have had. The school/LA don't own you, the idea of having to pay a fine is ridiculous in any circumstance. Education isn't just about having your name ticked on the register in a building.
I honestly don't think you'll get anywhere appealing, but the situation seems so ridiculous. How is being late for school an unauthorised abscence? If it's an unauthorised abscence but they are actually there what happens if there is a fire? Do they show as being pin the building or not?
I hate our education system and the hoops it makes people jump through.

AnneAnon · 03/09/2023 13:32

I’m mean a day or two either side is one thing but two full weeks?!

Somaliwildass · 03/09/2023 13:32

You could factor the fine into the cost of the holiday of you go when they're supposed to be at school if it's much cheaper or convenient.

You planned for 9.5 sessions. If 10 is the cut off, perhaps you should have played it safe with 7 or 4 or none!

It was stupid to cut it so fine if it mattered that you tried to play the system like this.

It's also not comparable to school closures for COVID or strikes, as they didn't miss something that was actually happening and get behind the others who were there, as you children will have done. They'll also have walked in late, shattered, disturbed everyone else and had no clue what their teachers were talking about having missed the whole week. A fine should deter people from being a pain.

Clymene · 03/09/2023 13:32

I can't believe you sent your kids to school after an overnight flight.

How selfish

Swipe left for the next trending thread