Marked as unauthorised and fined

[anywherebutthere]

Long story short we booked a family holiday. The majority of it fell over the Easter holidays, but some of it fell the first week back.
In total we were planning to miss 9.5 sessions, which would mean we wouldn't be fined, as it's under 10 sessions.
We had a night flight home and landed at 7am. We live 15 minutes from the airport and had all intentions of getting the children to school that day. When we landed the barrage handlers were on strike and it took 2 hours for our luggage to appear. We phoned school numerous times to update them and to say the children would be late.
We finally got them to school at 9.45am (45 minutes late)
This lateness has now been marked as unauthorised even though it was out of our control and we are being fined £480. It was originally £240 but we are trying to contest it and school haven't been open as it's the holidays so has gone past the 2 weeks early payment amount.
Realistically if this goes to court then do we have a leg to stand on? I believe we should have been marked late or authorised for the 45 minutes they were late to school that day.

Can you explain why the other children in the OP's childrens classes should loose out on teaching time as the teacher has to cover the teaching points which the children missed during their hoilday?

Over 25 years of teaching and I really haven't seen this mythically loss of learning time for other children happen!

@AnneValentine yes you can as they aren't that different. We have three options the outstanding catholic school (1st option) but feeders have changed so will see how that goes, moving into catchment for the outstanding state schools (0.2miles and nothing on the market) or final option is private. All schools get similar results and take similar kids (usually the ones who miss out on options 1 and 2 by distance).

You seem convinced that all that matters is the bottom of the pile that has no support at home or those that are failing academically.

This policy doesn't hit them alone, it hits the squeezed middle yet again. The parents who support their kids and who won't lose out from two weeks away spending some time together, parents exactly like us.

But you don't want to listen to those kids and parents speaking up, you don't want to challenge the data or looks for ways to support both, you just want to say oh well easy option no holidays in term time as it's easy. The government doesn't always know best!

They’re not hugely different? Are you joking?

I'm with you OP, if your child had been late because of traffic would it have been marked as unauthorised? That is what I would want to know. This situation wasn't your fault, you intended to get them there and were prevented by something beyond your control.
It's absolutely ridiculous that parents can't take their kids out of school for a few days once a year without having to pay a fine. I took mine out a few times at primary school before all this ridiculousness and the school had no problem with it - it's Ofsted making it a huge thing of it that has changed their view on it. Teachers don't spend hours catching kids up, I've worked in a lot of schools and never seen this happen. DS got all 8's and 9's in his GCSE's so certainly didn't affect his outcomes....

I’m not adverse to tagging on the odd day- we’re doing that next year and it’s saving us over £1k. It’s become so common at ours that the school double end the May half term with inset days as so many kids are out anyway. But… you cut it fine and you knew there was a risk so you just need to suck it up.

I also think you were very unreasonable expecting the kids to go straight to school after a night flight. We have just returned from holiday and there is no way my children would have managed school today. Child no.1 slept until midday and the other one has been super irritable. Both have been put to bed early so they have a chance of enjoying school tomorrow but even a lazy recovery day feels like we’ve cut it a little fine.

Because for most registers, past a certain time moves from late to unauthorised. At my last school it was half an hour. If that was the morning session they would then pick up a 'present' mark in the afternoon.

And yes, regardless of the reason past a certain time most schools will mark as unauthorised.

How many children are pulled out of school to work on farms in your area?
Or has the tradition died off as parents (pulled from school to work) realised that education was key to escaping rural poverty? All most all of the trades have a formal schooling element farming is not producing many millionares anymore and the basic expectation is that irish children will be heading for a PLC / college level

And if you are in a rural area you know that you pulling your "bright" child from school in the first week of term is stealing time from the child that needs extra time and support but will not qualify for a resource teacher.

People like @sleepyscientist will be fine helping her child (who is in a fee paying school with all the benefits that brings ) catch up. However i suspect her traveller NDN who left school at 13 may have trouble with helping their child.

The Irish government dont have to manage schools with children who dont speak Engilsh as a first language or whos parents cant speak English much at all. When the war refugees were housed the government had to fund and manage additonal support to enable the children to go to school.

And dont forget that the Irish Government do not want to take on the responsibilty of managing schools nor school attendance.

@sleepyscientist

I'm not here to discuss whether school or holiday is best for kids or what they will remember more. Everyone will have their own opinion. And basically we're subject to the law.

If parents want to take kids out of school they will. As you do. Some kids will have enough support and the facilities for it to make no difference at all. Holidays and decent educational outcomes.

Some kids will be missing school and their outcomes will be badly effected. Some of those kids won't even be lucky enough to go on holiday.

The stats bear this out.

Whatever you did or you do with your son is largely irrelevant because you are an exception. Happy that it's worked out for you but your case does not disprove the stats.

@AnSolas

And if you are in a rural area you know that you pulling your "bright" child from school in the first week of term is stealing time from the child that needs extra time and support but will not qualify for a resource teacher.

Ah, don't be silly. A child is still on the roll, even if they're away on holiday or off sick.

Where I live, it's a toss up between farming and IT businesses that's bringing in the most revenue. We're not backwards culchies out in the sticks anymore, you do realise? 😂

Late after registration closes counts as unauthorised. You've already been told that.
Your kids missed school to go on holiday. Pay the fine.

You tried to play the system and failed. Suck it up and pay the fine. Sounds like you've caused enough school disruption. Two children that you must have picked up after registration on the first holiday day, disrupting two classrooms then on your return showing up 45 mins late, again disrupting classrooms.

No judgement for missing school, I've taken my young primary DC out and had a wonderful time but factored in the fine.

My daughter was late when exH took her and she was marked as Unauthorised for a session. Annoying!

(Side note- as a teacher I think it's a barmy U.K. bit of legislation which does not support the children it intends to but penalises others unnecessarily. The vast majority of primary aged children would be supported by a week with Gran/ seeing another culture/ etc rather than penalised in their learning development. It's aimed at long term absence and parental disaffection and I personally think it's missed the target.)

They weren't 45 minutes late. They were 9.5 sessions PLUS 45 minutes late.

I'm with you OP, if your child had been late because of traffic would it have been marked as unauthorised? That is what I would want to know
The sort of traffic that has students arriving to school 45 minutes late is usually the sort of traffic that affects staff and school busses too, in my experience.

If there is a crash on a major route and awful tailbacks then every school I've worked in has had contingency plans. Rarely cover is deployed to ensure that the students are supervised until enough staff are on site and more students are on site. Once there's enough staff and students to start the school day then the school day starts.

It would be very unfortunate for a student to be 45 minutes late due to terrible traffic that doesn't affect anyone else, especially unfortunate if the terrible traffic happened after a term time holiday.

I would just accept it backfired, pay the fine and draw a line under it. No point dragging this out any longer when it's clear from PP professional guidance that it is VERY unlikely to be overturned

Realistically if this goes to court then do we have a leg to stand on?

No. As the law stands, you have no chance at all of overturning the fine.

@AnneAnon

"Ironic from someone who can’t spell absence"

Proving my point that education doesn't make either manners or intelligence

Yes, and posted about it at the planning stage and was told in no uncertain terms it was a very unfair thing to make the children do.

I think it's brilliant the school have fined you, OP! Good for them. Maybe you won't do it again in the future.

But they aren't absent, they are late
Imagine if you were late to work and they recorded it as a day off! It's madness!

Hang on. So the plane landed at 7am and you were happy to take your kids into school that same day? You deserve a fine for that alone. That is cruel!

Surely if you were stuck in traffic because of a crash for 45 mins you wouldn't be marked as unauthorised. Just because I was at the airport is it really that different?

Yes. It was a school day so reasonable to be stuck in traffic between home and school. Your children were not authorised to be stuck in a traffic jam after leaving the airport.

I 100% know that my sons best friend missed 20 sessions when he went to Spain for 2 weeks and wasn't fined. And I know for a fact that both of his parents are on universal credit and don't work

Disgusting that people can not work yet go on holiday abroad. But that is for a different thread.

Surely if you were stuck in traffic because of a crash for 45 mins you wouldn't be marked as unauthorised. Just because I was at the airport is it really that different?

The general rule is that it will be marked as unauthorised absence if a child misses registration completely. Fines are issued for children who are persistently late.

They weren't in front of the teacher at the time the register was taken and they were absent.

The time period between the two registers isn't continuous it's about 10-15 minutes max.