Marked as unauthorised and fined

[anywherebutthere]

Long story short we booked a family holiday. The majority of it fell over the Easter holidays, but some of it fell the first week back.
In total we were planning to miss 9.5 sessions, which would mean we wouldn't be fined, as it's under 10 sessions.
We had a night flight home and landed at 7am. We live 15 minutes from the airport and had all intentions of getting the children to school that day. When we landed the barrage handlers were on strike and it took 2 hours for our luggage to appear. We phoned school numerous times to update them and to say the children would be late.
We finally got them to school at 9.45am (45 minutes late)
This lateness has now been marked as unauthorised even though it was out of our control and we are being fined £480. It was originally £240 but we are trying to contest it and school haven't been open as it's the holidays so has gone past the 2 weeks early payment amount.
Realistically if this goes to court then do we have a leg to stand on? I believe we should have been marked late or authorised for the 45 minutes they were late to school that day.

@Thewolvesarerunningagain I'm also intrigued by the Plane Pals 😁

www.planepal.co.uk/

Maybe this whole thread is a subtle ad? I've never heard of them.

I don't understand why they were marked as absent, surely it should have just been 'late'.

TBH, I'd just pay it as I don't think it's worth the hassle and if you pay it early it's not even that much. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Because they weren't present when the register was taken - also known as absent?

A week of learning is a lot. I don't the ages of these dcs, but I work in year 1 and they would have missed a lot of phonics and possibly a whole topic in maths. It's also very frustrating when a child comes in the middle of a piece of writing. They may also miss an assessment and then the teacher has to find the time to do it with them separately. It's almost always the children who can't afford to miss school who are the ones who get taken out.

AnneValentine I was taken out every year for two weeks in July and a week in October and still got a level 7 qualification considering doing a PhD. Husband had similar and has degree. DS is doing well academically despite us taking him out.

You are clever enough to know that your story is irrelevant to all the work going into keeping absenteeism low and create a decent culture of school attendance. As there are direct correlations between absenteeism and pupil's success.

Whataboutry around the fact it didn't make a difference to clever you and your clever OH and probably your clever DS is largely irrelevant.

Unless you'd like to argue that yes , absenteeism makes no difference to certain groups of kids. Especially the ones who are already struggling with other issues.

@sleepyscientist

Because they were absent at the time the register was taken... there's a window of time to take the register, 10-15 mins or so.

So let's pretend the register is usually taken at 9am, and is "open" for 10 minutes. If they had rushed in at 9:09, they might have been marked 9 min late, as the register is asking "who is/was in front of the teacher at 9:00" and OPs kids got in at 9:45, so they were absent.

I think you are missing my point. These children are so sleep deprived they are missign education every day anyway.

I'll pick up on something no one else seems to have.
In one of your posts (sorry not trawling all the way back to find the exact one)
You say that it wasn't actually your easter holiday, it was your may half term holiday. So you've had 2 holidays? Surely if you can afford to do that, you can afford to just book one holiday properly, without missing any school? Or just pay the fine which you obviously knew about before you tried to beat the system.
You chose to take them out of school unnecessarily, you just have to suck it up.

Well - that would have cost a lot less than £240/£480, @anywherebutthere.

You should have factored the fine in to the cost of the holiday.

Nope - if you miss registration you’re late. If it’s not a good reason it’s unauthorised. I was already unauthorised and my flight was late is not a good reason.

Brilliant!

Suck it up buttercup.

May I say that I am impressed that the OP was organised enough that the children had their school uniforms to wear on the plane so they could go straight to school when they got off.

May I say that I am impressed that the OP was organised enough that the children had their school uniforms to wear on the plane so they could go straight to school when they got off.

Organised = B+ ( didn't factor in possible strike action but did take Plane Pals and Uniform )

Piss Taker = A +

Accepts Responsibility = D

In Ireland the courts can and have send a parent to jail if their child is not in school.

And D4 children may be encouraged to have enrichment experiences but the expectation in working class areas is that children should be in school during term.

@sunglassesonthetable @AnneValentine is it irrelevant tho it's a good evidence base to start with and is no doubt replicated up and down the country. The school we are considering for DS has an extra two weeks off in the summer and 2 weeks off in October so the state schools system has some room to expand holidays or let parents have it as flexible time. At the end of the day we work to live a nice life as friends and family not to always over achieve but miss out on the fun side of life.

If DS wasn't academic that would also be fine you don't need 10 grade 9 to be a successful in life. What is more important is spending time together, making memories and building a desire to succeed. You do that with things like holidays and nice experiences. You don't do it going to school 9-5 and missing out on other experiences.

We have a considerable number of the traveling community around us who do well having left school at 13!

100%. Bang to rights - pay up and shut up.

We have a considerable number of the traveling community around us who do well having left school at 13!

That's great to hear they've done well.

But it doesn't support a culture of school attendance. And it undermines schools who are trying to do that.

There are probably loads of kids who will be fine but they are looking out for the many kids who need that structure and support and don't have a network around them to fall back on.

Kids need nice experiences, holidays and an education. It doesn't have to be one at the expense of the other.

It looks like you tried to be clever, but failed.

@AnSolas

D4?? Don't make me laugh. I'm on the west coast and quite rural. I agree entirely that inner city areas (in most cities) have their share of truancy and other problems but at least the Irish govt. don't use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Can you imagine the outcry??

@sunglassesonthetable my point is promoting a culture of attendance isn't what all parents want. What we need is a culture of attainment balanced with a desire to succeed in order to enjoy life. That doesn't have to be a strict 9-5 in school, it could be something like a digital portfolio of work they have to complete over the year if you attend it's done in school, if you don't parents have to catch up with the kids if they don't it's a fine.

Some parents will keep kids off with a cold other take holidays, other don't bother at all. DS goes in unless he's really unwell but we value holidays and events like weddings if they are mid week so we keep him off and pay the fine if needed.

For some parents it's is at the expense of experiences, I have priced what is likely to be next Octobers holiday if we go for two weeks including half term it's £5316 plus £150 fine £5466, if we go the Easter holidays it's £7794 or Christmas is £8085. If we were to take him out the first two weeks of October it's £4647 plus £159 so £4797.

We've been to Mexico at all those times before and the first two weeks of October is fine weather wise yet saves 3k over Easter! That's a cheap summer break so he would be missing out, heck we could go back to the same hotel in may (risk of rain showers) for £4119!

The fine only punishes the poor in reality we can afford the Easter one, we can also afford the £150 fine but some can't. If you can just afford a week in Benidorm then the fine of £300 (two kids) could be the sum total of your spending money which means the kids don't get to spend that on nice experiences.

What would you rather they had 10 grade 8s and loads of happy memories or 10 grade 9s but have never been abroad with their family. The whole system is wrong as it puts the 9s above the families freedom to choose what is right for them. We have the 10A*, the 3 As and the degrees it doesn't pay for the above and most importantly it's not what our son is going to remember when we are gone, what he is going to remember is spending time with us!

Yes. It is irrelevant.

Presumably you’re referring to private school for your DS. Where they have a very different offering - you, of course with your level 7 qualification knows you cannot compare settings with such huge variables.

Not really.
I (and my siblings) missed 1-2 weeks of school for holidays when growing up as dad had factory shutdown, which wasn't in school holidays. We're in England, so not fancy ones abroad. All three of us grew up with a respect for school and education, went on to higher education, got degrees and post grad qualifications, etc. I even went into teaching.

I disagree that family holidays should only be for those who can afford to go away in school holidays. Children can benefit a lot from a family holiday, as can other family members.

Most teachers, in my experience, really don't mind children missing school for a family holiday. Just don't ask for work to be set or marked, or extra catch up time.

And it's rare that anything important is only ever covered once at school. Your average child isn't going to be penalised by missing some school time, if their attendance is normally fine.

So, no it's not terrible at all imo.

Obviously, it's a personal choice. Don't want to take a term time holiday - don't

And sadly the fines exist. You have to be prepared to take the fine, if you take time off school for a holiday. Sometimes you may get away without it, sometimes you won't. It's always a risk, but usually the holiday saving more than covers it anyway.