STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS

[theantignome]

hi everyone, i wanted to start a new thread with a NEW topic heading here, as the active one at the moment with over 700 posts looks like it is all about the Cambridge school. This may confuse newcomers.

Let's continue the debate here !
All newcomers welcome !

I will shortly link our two previous threads on MN for any one new to have a look at.

Davy, could you also give a link to your new yahoo list here please ? Thanks.

Not above, but on page 26, it turns out

Sune is actually right, he isn't quite 60 yet. Soon though. Very soon.

Maybe I should correct my statement above. He might have started to monitor critics' online activity already when he was 47 + 1/2

That means we have to make a little correction as for the relative number of his life spent on this. I estimate 2/11!

Sune: "to the best of my ability and understanding try to address the issues"

Still no success? What's getting in the way - the content or the tactics of your arguments?

Sune:
"the main tools used in this part of the argumentation are the cultivation that Rudolf Steiner was schizophrenic, megalomaniac and a drug addict, that he probably practiced sex magic, and that elements in Waldorf education extensively are used as ritual magic,"

Huh? No wonder you like me then, since I don't care about whether Steiner was schizophrenic or used drugs. You're taking speculative stuff that comes up on rare occasion in a long-running discussion group where some of the participants have studied Steiner intensively, and conflating it with basic, every day problems Steiner parents encounter.

The more standard fare on the mailing list is those problems. Discussion tends to things like academic deficiencies, poor teacher training, misleading PR and recruitment, failure to inform parents clearly about anthroposophy, poor discipline, bullying, mistreatment of children, safety and hygiene.

I think that the occasional discussions of where some of Steiner's more bizarre ideas came from, whether he was mentally ill or involved in other occult groups like the Masons or the OTO etc., stand out in your mind just because you find such talk about your personal guru so distressing. It simply upsets you emotionally for someone to suggest maybe he was wigged out on drugs. You hear that as an insult. But these topics are not the usual fare on the discussion list and probably aren't of much interest to the average Steiner parent. The average Steiner parent is more likely to be like the mums on mumsnet and mainly cares that her child not be mistreated, that he learn to read and write, that teachers are competent and caring, etc.

"Sune is actually right, he isn't quite 60 yet. Soon though. Very soon.

Maybe I should correct my statement above. He might have started to monitor critics' online activity already when he was 47 + 1/2

That means we have to make a little correction as for the relative number of his life spent on this. I estimate 2/11!"

Zooey, I think this makes you a liar and a forger, and possibly a con artist

"It is suggested that no one should by any means accept the assertions made by some Anthroposophists against people who have found Anthroposophy to be other than what one might have wished. Such people are not without spiritual understanding.They are not without intelligence,sensitivity or perspicacity. Nor are you.
Neither am I.
My name is David Dodds, webmaster of this site. I worked and lived in special needs care in Scotland from 1995-2000, and then worked some additional two years as live-out staff.
In common with other Survivors, I moved from exquisitely happy for the first few months, through to having some doubts, then very low self esteem, then the pain of needing professional help in order to deal with living with Anthroposophy without giving up on other values.
On publishing this site, I anticipate having my own character assailed rather than having topics addressed. I have learned to live with it-I hope you never have to."
www.easeonline.org/About_Ease.htm)

Regretfully, some contributors on here are having to do precisely that merely by not swallowing whatever they are fed.
Davy

I would second Diana's list of parental concerns with the amendment that in some cases parents are not informed AT ALL about anthroposophy, prior to enrolling their children at a Steiner School. There is also the misleading impression that once the children reach 6/7, a proper academic curriculum will begin and the children will be so ready and willing that they will soon catch up with their peers. The reality is that it becomes harder and harder to get a child out of the Steiner system because they can fall terribly far behind and the teachers are not competent enough to recognise this. I know children of 8 and 9 years old, from exceptionally loving, supportive homes who still cannot read a sentence.

One really positive thing though is that with more and more information available about Steiner on sites like this, far fewer families will be hoodwinked. Six years ago I had no access to the net, other parents did not enlighten me and I GENUINELY thought I was making a good choice.

I think the insanity or addict angle isn't completely out of place, though. For me, it doesn't matter much what Steiner's mental health status was, in itself, but it is highly relevant when considering anthroposophists today, including the waldorf teachers, take his teachings seriously. There obviously were stuff going on in his brain that made him propose the things he proposed. This stuff could possibly have been considered abnormal. The question then is, why take such an abnormal brain functioning and make it the cornerstone of pedagogical and occult practices in today's schools? Not only has the stuff he proposed never been proved to be right, to correspond to actual reality, but what if he was really nuts too? I mean, in any case, implications are that his system of beliefs shouldn't be used in schools. Both aspects could be used to describe the reasons for rejecting his teachings.

"Zooey, I think this makes you a liar and a forger, and possibly a con artist "

Without a doubt! It's proof that I changed my mind - the cardinal sign of con artistry

No place among the good race for me

Janni, you're so right - they don't catch up, and leaving waldorf becomes harder and harder the more time passes. Kids in ordinary schools learn so much in these first 5-7 years - it's crazy to think that all that would be covered in the later grades in waldorf. What's important too is that waldorf kids have no experience in reading and writing - so it requires efforts that have to be detracted from learning actual subjects. Basic stuff has just not been trained enough, early enough.

Hi Zzooey and Janni no sign of Phoenix?

I'm having a really bad day in the steiner community. It's getting more and more isolating, not that I want to be part of it. Its like being abducted by a cult but the other way around. I just don't know how to deal with these people anymore. I have tried being friendly in a neutral sort of way but when you have young children it just becomes one big anthoposophical issue.

All this ridiculous judging , every aspect of our lives has come under the closest scrutiny. My children have offered to share their food with them and the parents refuse, saying their child doesn't eat wheat/dairy/sugar. My eldest has asked one of the boys in to watch a film, I checked with his mother as I understand the sensitivity around tv watching and he was escorted out. I have been asked what type of fuel I put in my car. Last summer my children were playing with water pistols and the steiner children used 'Ecover' washing up bottles as a safe flaccid alternative.

We are just in the process of putting our house on the market. I can't wait to move, the only problem is I will have loads of intense steiner people in my house judging my inner sanctuary. And because they are so bloody flaky they will want it then decide after a few weeks that maybe they don't.

I have already been asked by one prospective purchaser what my star sign is (yes really). With the market being so wobbly whoever wants it will be driving down a hard bargain as many are ex-city burnt types turned pixie folk.

Please may I scream?

'ex-city burnt out types' I mean.

steiner must have been rich.
Rich people don't have mental health issues.
They are eccentric/gifted/indigo/creative/spirited.
Take your pick

Oh Barking, scream away. How AWFUL to live with that perpetual holier than thou vibe. I'm not surprised you want to move.

Yes, scream, loud.

What you could do, if anyone of them buys the house, is to carve in a little message somewhere, someplace that isn't seen immediately, hidden away but yet possible to find (when cleaning for example).

Like
"I have taken this house in possesion. Evil forces inhabit the ground. Cheers, Ahriman."

That's what I would like to do

Rich people can be a lot wackier than the ordinary poor crazy person. They get away with a lot more without anyone, including authorities, interfering.

And Barking, the anthros think you're moving to pure evilness. A place where there are only real water pistols instead of Ecover bottles, and plenty stuff with sugar to eat.

Its so bloody oppressive as I feel my children can't express themselves. I feel we're being watched all the time as we are one of the few normal (whatever normal means?) families left. A freak show if you like.

I don't want to engage with these people especially since I found out so much more once I left the fold.

I just feel so angry as my children are the ones in the middle of all this. I moved here because of it was such a beautiful area. I never thought we would have to move again. Unfortunately over the last few years it has become a steiner enclave.

On the plus side, the cruelty, bullying and isolation here have made me strong enough to seriously consider emigrating to NZ.

Barking, make sure you find out the right star sign to be and start being it

"I have taken this house in possesion. Evil forces inhabit the ground. Cheers, Ahriman."

Oh Zzooey
Thank you for that!
I wish I could meet you all in RL. You could come over here before I go and we could have are own little goodbye steiner ceremony.

We could eat chips and wear polyester, play music from an electrical appliance. Oh crazy things.........

I know, maybe I should make a little hand made wooden sign, nice and round - no pointy corners! and call my house 'Manu''.

Maybe they will pay a premium if they think his aura lives here

I wonder what Northern will make of all this on her return?
Feathers have definately been ruffled!

And TV and candy to really invite the ahrimanic forces to the party

There are more things you could do, except the Manu sign, to enhance the market price of your house. You just need the right stuff. Decoration: Bees wax candles, nature tables with nature stuff (great because it's free), crystals placed here and there (in windowsills for example) because they have a connection with the spirits (or whatever, but anthros like them ). Hang silk fabrics over the electric devices so that the ahrimanic forces seem to have not been present in your lovely pro-spiritual house (hence no evil spirits to drive out!). It's about the feeling, not the quality of the house, really (which was demonstrated by the star sign question - anyone interested in doing business wouldn't care...)

And as Janni said, pick the appropriate star sign. Perhaps one that is connected to honesty and realiability in business deals and in spiritual dealings. If there is such a sign.