Primary school admissions - 14 miles apart

[Ruralparents]

Hi all

I thought I’d join to mine your collective wisdom!

We live in rural Cambridgeshire, 6 miles from our nearest school in one direction and 8 miles from the next nearest in another.

Back in the depths of lockdown we had to a choose a school for our eldest to start at in Sept 2021. My wife teaches at the school 8 miles away and so we chose it because it would be handier. We didn’t know if our eldest would get in there but she did. And it turns out that her catchment school, 6 miles away, was oversubscribed.

Now, in 2023 our daughters school is over subscribed and our youngest has been placed at the catchment school. These two school are 14 miles apart! We lost our appeal and have now got the prospect of trying to manage a 28 mile school run, twice a day.

Cambridgeshire council don’t care, they are hiding behind their protocols and passing the buck.

We asked if our eldest could move schools to be with our youngest and they’ve refused because her year group at the catchment school is oversubscribed.

Out of catchment siblings get the same priority as in catchment siblings in Suffolk and Norfolk, but not Cambridgeshire. And when you live 6 and 8 miles from the two schools it’s fairly obvious you’re going to be at the bottom of the admissions list when either school is over subscribed.

Has anyone had any joy appealing on the grounds of unreasonable journey times etc? I just don’t think anyone should be made to do over 10000 miles a year on the school run. School transport hasn’t been offered but even if we can get it, someone still has to be available to put a 4 year old in a taxi and to collect them etc, it doesn’t help the logistics.

There is an ombudsman, but I think they have just rigged the whole system in order to do as they please and screw those who live out in the sticks.

Do you have neighbours with similar aged children, how do they get to school?

Given your children are going to be Reception and Year 2 this sept, any appeal would I imagine be ICS - infant class size: there is a legal limit of 30 per class except in very limited circumstances. An ICS appeal is very difficult to win, as presumably you have already seen in your appeal for your youngest. You are very unlikely to win an ICS appeal on logistics.

If you put the non-catchment school first in your preferences in 2021, a panel may also take the view that this is a product of your own doing; you could have easily looked at the criteria for siblings to gauge the likelihood of getting your youngest in this year. You essentially took a gamble on preferring the non-catchment school.

In a year, your eldest will be in year 3 so an appeal then would not be ICS and so would be easier to win, if you can make it work until then.

You made a parental choice for the non catchment school as the parent works there. You got it that year but new dc can't get it.that's the way it works. You were lucky to get first dc in I but if you'd put catchment in for first dc even if they didn't get it then you'd prob get second in current school.

Thanks for the responses.

One of the criteria the appeals panel is supposed to consider is ‘no other school within reasonable distance’. We argued that 56 miles a day on the school run is not reasonable. I understand that personal logistics aren’t considered, but there should be some limit as to what they can inflict on people? Anyway the panel didn’t reference this criteria in their written response.

And the other relevant criteria was that the panel should consider what other admissions authorities would consider reasonable. A mile away in Suffolk our 2nd child would have been admitted as a sibling without quibble whether in catchment or not. Which means that if you live out in the sticks you might have to drive a way to school but it will always be the same school. Again the appeals panel made no reference to why they had dismissed this criteria.

With hindsight you could argue that we should have gone for the catchment school sure, but they are building houses everywhere round here, without adding school places, it’s unlikely our eldest would have got into the catchment school anyway and they won’t let her in now (even if we wanted to move her).

It seems unjust to me that they can write their admissions codes in such a way that parents can be trapped with a 28 mile school run, particularly when the neighbouring county doesn’t do that?

As regards school transport there aren’t any children getting transport from this direction, so it would be a case of putting a May born 4 year old in a taxi with a driver. That’s if we could get it funded, I’ve been told that isn’t a given because the funding is limited bla bla. And with all these things, no one seems to take responsibility, it’s all down to the computer.

I thought they had to fund transport to the nearest school if over 2 miles. If it is Infant Class size restrictions then your logistics won't win the appeal, can you do the school run, is there any before school club for dc2? Or a childminder. If it the catchment school it seems unlikely no other child is going that way. Is dc1 on the waiting list?

Does your wife still work at oldest child’s school? If so, does youngest not get a place as child of an employee?

The way the council sees it...

You got your first preference for your first child
You got your catchment school for second child

Could you prove your eldest wouldn't have gotten into the catchment child? Just being oversubscribed isn't enough, you might still have been higher than some that didn't get in (catchment areas around my way are very wonky for example... can go half a mile in one direction but 5 miles in another!)

I think the panel will say that you aren't going to have a 56 mile school run as your wife works at the school.

Your four year old is going to the nearest school and you have chosen to live in a home that is far away from your nearest school.

Living rurally must have big advantages for your children and for your whole family. I can walk to four primary schools in under five minutes where I live but my children aren't enjoying a rural childhood!

I completely understand why you wouldn't want her going in a taxi at four but I don't know how you didn't see that coming when you had pre-school children and you live six miles away from a school. That's the school she would be going to regardless of your older child.

The Norfolk/Suffolk issue isn't relevant.

The guidelines on the government website say we should get it, however we were told that if you hadn’t accepted your offered school without appeal you might struggle.

School transport doesn’t solve the logistics problem anyway, my wife and daughter will have already left for school by the time the school taxi arrives so I will need to be here. A farmer cannot rock up for work at 9.15 every day and clear off home at 3pm.

We can try and find a childminder, but again, we’re 6 miles out of the town, unless the childminder drives to our house we’d have to drive into the town anyway.

The appeals panel was online with all 5 members sat in their home offices. From their perspective as home workers then organising the logistics would have seemed easy.

Also, my wife has taught in Cambridgeshire for 9 years and will now probably have to quit her job. It’s pretty grim that her own employers are quite happy to force her out of her job.

If you are a mile from the border are there any schools in Suffolk which would be closer?

She does, but the school was oversubscribed before it got to that criteria which was about 5th on the list I think.

But it isn't a 28 mile a day school run because your wife works at one of them! It's a 12 mile school run which is the smallest possible run you could have envisaged when you bought that house?

I agree. My immediate thought was what about other schools closer - over the border? In our LA siblings get automatic priority but a mile away in different LA they don't.
You may have to do the school run if your wife can't. Get in help / employ someone to help cover etc

She works 2.5 days a week in school. Fair enough, it’s 40 miles a day the 2 full days she works and 56 miles for the other 3 days.

Im aware that they aren’t going to take every families personal circumstances into account when they write these entrance rules. However, there should be some kind of top limit on the distance apart they can send infant children and 14 miles should be waaayyy outside it.

She will get transport organised by the LA if you stick to your guns as she is definitely an eligible child if you really are 6 miles from the closest school. Look up the actual law and the policy in your area, and apply as per their instructions.

You think it's a better idea for your wife to quit her job than to get a childminder for an hour a day?

I'm sorry for your predicament, but exaggerating and nonsense claims won't help you make a sensible decision.

Wouldn’t all this be solved if everyone just went to their closest school?

It sounds like you made a decision two years ago without considering the future possibilities. The rules on siblings are pretty standard, at least where we live.

However, there should be some kind of top limit on the distance apart they can send infant children and 14 miles should be waaayyy outside it.

But they can't build schools close to every farm and you chose to send your child to a school that's further away which was a risk. I understand why you did it but everyone who sends their child to a school which isn't their nearest school does it for a reason.

It sounds like you have exhausted all appeal avenues. So you now have to decide how to deal with your current situation, however unfair you feel it is.

Two things. (1) Are you on the wait list of both schools? (2) Next year your elder dd will be in year 3 and ICS no longer applies, it might be worth appealing again then, if something hasn’t been sorted.

It would be if our eldest were able to move schools, as she isn’t it’s 28 miles. My wife is probably going to have to quit her job (thanks to her own employer) to handle the logistics, as I can’t be available with my job.

Im sure this has happened before hence the mumsnet post, I was wondering if anyone had had any success in resolving such a distance between schools.

Obviously the answer is A) No and B) It’s all your own fault and nothing to do with the council.

Why aren't you quitting your job? Why does the mother always get the shitty end of the deal?

She works 2.5 days a week in school. Fair enough, it’s 40 miles a day the 2 full days she works and 56 miles for the other 3 days.

Maybe she could stay on the half day and do her PPA then you have two days where either your child goes in the taxi, you have to take her or you employ a childminder. That's about eighty days that have to be covered.

Do that for a year then appeal when your oldest goes into year three. And obviously put both of them on the waiting lists in the meantime.

I don't think this is quite the disaster you are seeing.

Your wife works at the school 8 miles away. Her commute is 16 miles a day. Your older daughter is currently doing that 16 mile commute to school. I imagine with your wife.

Your younger daughter has not got a place at the same school. That sucks, the sibling link not applying a high priority is shitty for you.
However your youngest daughter has a place at her nearest school 6 miles away. She will have a 12 mile a day school commute. You will have to male use of school transport, wraparound, childminders, shared schoolruns with other local parents etc to make it work for her.

If you can do the school run for your younger daughter while your wife does the older one, no-one is doing a 56 mile a day commute.

To be honest, if you live in a rural location then long school commutes is a fact of life.

If you keep each child on the waiting list of the others school perhaps a place will come up. Or you can reapply for your elder child next year to join sibling at the closer school when ICS doesn't apply. But if your wife is still at 8 mile away school then the same travel will be happening each day so not sure how that helps you.

Because my job is full time, i’m a partner in the farm, it comes with a house and if I don’t make the bank repayments every month they’d bankrupt me.

We both think me quitting might add to our problems not resolve them…..

Plenty have DC in two schools & use childminders & breakfast clubs etc
Rural living just makes the distances much bigger. If your wife worked in the same area as school 1 and that's why you'd chosen it you'd still be in same pickle. You had massive advantage of no school run for a couple of years. School hours aren't ideal for any working parent.
You say it's because you are a farmer.
No it's not. Most working parents can't do school run at 9 and 3