Primary school admissions - 14 miles apart

[Ruralparents]

Hi all

I thought I’d join to mine your collective wisdom!

We live in rural Cambridgeshire, 6 miles from our nearest school in one direction and 8 miles from the next nearest in another.

Back in the depths of lockdown we had to a choose a school for our eldest to start at in Sept 2021. My wife teaches at the school 8 miles away and so we chose it because it would be handier. We didn’t know if our eldest would get in there but she did. And it turns out that her catchment school, 6 miles away, was oversubscribed.

Now, in 2023 our daughters school is over subscribed and our youngest has been placed at the catchment school. These two school are 14 miles apart! We lost our appeal and have now got the prospect of trying to manage a 28 mile school run, twice a day.

Cambridgeshire council don’t care, they are hiding behind their protocols and passing the buck.

We asked if our eldest could move schools to be with our youngest and they’ve refused because her year group at the catchment school is oversubscribed.

Out of catchment siblings get the same priority as in catchment siblings in Suffolk and Norfolk, but not Cambridgeshire. And when you live 6 and 8 miles from the two schools it’s fairly obvious you’re going to be at the bottom of the admissions list when either school is over subscribed.

Has anyone had any joy appealing on the grounds of unreasonable journey times etc? I just don’t think anyone should be made to do over 10000 miles a year on the school run. School transport hasn’t been offered but even if we can get it, someone still has to be available to put a 4 year old in a taxi and to collect them etc, it doesn’t help the logistics.

There is an ombudsman, but I think they have just rigged the whole system in order to do as they please and screw those who live out in the sticks.

Are there school buses the kids can get?

So where is he at preschool?
Assume you have to drop off there currently.

How is your wife going to manage dropping at catchment school then travelling to work though? She is always going to have a 56 mile a day school run/commute....

For anyone reading for future reference who lives rurally, when you look for childcare go near the school as childminders and nurseries near schools often do wraparound care. Also look for schools with reliable wraparound.

Op I assume you have checked both schools for wraparound availability and local childminders? My cm is a good 12 minute drive from the pre school and school she picks mine up from, being rural she actually covers 4 schools I can think of right now in a maybe 5 mile radius.

I suspect you won't qualify for free transport because your first choice was not your nearest school. However you'll have to try. As others have said you can also delay her start to Easter.

The youngest child does have a place at the nearest school which is six miles away. Surely they can't say 'we've allocated you the nearest school but because you wanted a further away one you don't qualify'

1. What other places do isn't relevant you don't live there.

2. This is a problem of your own making, you knew the criteria for siblings when you applied for your oldest child so at that point you could have thought about what happened if they didn't have a place for your younger child. After all you said yourself they are building houses and no new schools, so you were aware of the situation.

3. Your wife is a teacher, so she should well understand the rules around maximum of 30 kids to a class for the youngest year groups and should have known that if you didn't get a place allocated, getting one by appeal would be almost impossible.

4. The school year starts in a couple of weeks, it's time to stop stamping your feet and moaning about how unfair it is and find a solution, plenty of people do it. What would you do if you and your wife were both farmers - just not send your kids to school because your jobs are too important?

5. Your wife's employer didn't do this, it's a product of your poor decision making, and even if she leaves her job she won't be able to until the end of December so you need to find a solution until then anyway.

Technically they can....

Arable plus 40000 free range egg laying hens, all good fun and to be fair, it means that if the children are off sick on the days wife is working or if they need taking somewhere etc, I can do it. Unlike the poster above, we do see marriage as a team effort! 😂

I’ve been in to school to speak to the kids at the harvest festival and taken a tractor in for the school fete etc. so there’s flexibility like that, but not such that I can do this school run 2-3 days a week.

’Plenty’ if people don’t have their children in primary schools 14 miles apart, as evidence by the policies of other counties, but thanks for your response.

I'm not from a farming community but can appreciate that Dad doing the school run when he has livestock or crops to tend isn't really an option.

@Ruralparents I would get your child on the waiting list for the preferred school. And the older one on the waiting list for the one the younger one has been allocated. Then I would start posting on your local Facebook page or community page - there will be SOMEONE within a couple of miles who has children going to the school your youngest has been allocated and who might want to earn £20 a day by helping you out picking her up and taking her. Your wife drops her off at their house in the morning, then picks them up afterwards. Does your older daughter go home with mum or how does she get back from school?

I hope you are successful with your appeal but you have to start contingency planning in case you're not.

So your wife has to drop a child at school and then complete her commute? Hardly a unique situation...

Sorry, I think I’ve replied to the wrong post here.

But anyway, got to crack on, thanks for the responses so far, even the ‘it’s all your own fault and the council can stitch you up as much as they want’ ones. I’ll check back later.

If you got your oldest into the school your wife doesn't work at how does that help the logistics? You are still saying someone has to go to both schools 3 days a week. So, if getting the oldest into their siblings school solves the problem, surely the problem is solved anyway - it's just who has to do the journey, not that it's impossible to do?

@Ruralparents we could go round in circles all day debating the pros and cons of catchment priority vs sibling priority but the truth is there is no system that can be 100%fair and both systems are just trying to make it as fair as possible.

Maybe not your specific example but 'plenty' of people have to become more flexible to sort out tricky school runs around their jobs. Plenty of schools don't have before or after school provision which makes a drop off at 9 and a pick up at 3 tricky with a normal working day. Plenty of people have siblings in different schools, it's what happens and often not because of parents making unwise decisions in the first place. It's time to stop moaning and find solutions as other pp have suggested.

You would certainly qualify for school transport for your younger child. The appeal finding means that it is the nearest suitable school, and you live more than two miles away. There are absolutely no exceptions in the legislation that mean you don't qualify if you didn't want that school initially. Don't let the council fob you off with anything else.

"thanks for the responses so far, even the ‘it’s all your own fault and the council can stitch you up as much as they want’ ones."

You really need to get over this toddler like attitude of 'it's not fair' and start finding solutions ...

You are getting a hard time that I don't think you deserve @Ruralparents. Farming and teaching are inflexible jobs with early starts. You see people on MN stressing about before school logistics all the time. You thought you had solved your problem and now it turns out you haven't which is shit. And you have layers of problems, because your DW can't leave her job until Christmas without breaking her contract.

Does putting both DC in the 6 mile school actually help? What time does your wife have to be in school and does 6 mile school have a breakfast club that starts early enough to facilitate that?

People seem to be missing the point that the school taxi doesn't solve the issue because there is nobody to wait with her. The taxi will be very inflexible- it will pick up and drop off at the school's timings. It won't, for example, pick DD2 up form after school club some days.

Have you located all the childminders local to 6 mile school to see if there is one who could take DD2? Have you asked around the farm/ village whether anybody knows anybody who might do a couple of hours of childcare every morning and evening? You could look at agencies like sitters.co.uk to see if you can get somebody to pick up the hours you need.

One way or another, you are going to have to throw money at it for a few years I think.

Your prob unfort is your oldest daughters school does not have a sibling rule pushing your youngest daughter up the list. The schools in our county do at the primary schools and even at our local grammar. I am sorry that sucks.

The appeals panel was online with all 5 members sat in their home offices. From their perspective as home workers then organising the logistics would have seemed easy.

There is no room for subjectivity in an ics appeal. The panel wfh is irrelevant, your case did not meet the criteria to overturn the allocation. You would have needed to prove an error.

Literally proving my point! Calling women unhinged for having an opinion that you don't like? Does your wife get any say in whether she quits her job or just seeks childcare/other help for a slightly tricky school run? Or do you just get final say because women are too unhinged to have any say?

Did everyone miss that they're in tied accommodation, so if he quits his job they lose the house altogether?
That being said, I don't see why your wife has to quit. You need to throw money at it with breakfast club/childminders drop off, like everyone else does. If this is the first seemingly insurmountable problem you've faced with children, you've done well

Some of the panel may be volunteers as school governors are quite often on panels so would be at home rather than their place of work

Welcome to the school years! And it will only get more fun, as once they are at secondary, if there isn't a decent public bus service, they will either be furious with you that they can't do rugby/the school play/ go to a mate's house/etc, OR you will be providing a far more complicated taxi service than you already are. Wednesdays for us this new term include school play rehearsal, hockey, netball, swimming, the school run for the youngest (at a rural primary) and our own jobs, of course. We have 3 kids. I can't WAIT til the oldest can drive and do some of the ferrying. It is really, really hard..... I totally feel your pain, but we make these descions. Some of it, like school distance, makes life feel really stressful, and it is annoying that the rules seem to work better for those in towns and cities, but continuing to farm and your wife's job are choices. (I know how hard it is to get out of farming. We did, 5 years ago. I miss the country and my kids barely remember the life we had, BUT I go to work in one direction, my husband in another (after the primary school run which he can now do in his new job), one child can walk to her school, and the other catches a public bus. They can do all the extra curricular and friend stuff they want. We miss the farm horribly, but we couldn't keep the stress levels anymore, partly because of being parents). Things WILL get harder, not easier, as they want to do clubs or see friends outside of school, and lifts aren't just 9 and 3, but 5, 6, 7.30 and 10, all on the same day!!!! Maybe start planning now for how that will be.... And consider ALL your choices, not just the primary school one, including wrap around care.

Unfortunately you’ve caused the problem. Admissions policies are published you really should have looked at them when deciding the first school. You don’t get priority if you’re not in catchment. Policies are set by the school and not the LA. Had your first child gone to catchment school someone would need to be there to put them on school transport or drive them to school. You’ve avoided that by being able to get a non catchment place. You’ll now have to find a way to make it work. It’s only 2 days a week of an extra 24 miles. All the children applying to that school had a reason to do so, your needs don’t trump theirs. Appeals are meant to only be for if the admissions policy hasn’t been applied- the policy is published