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Caught the school lying to us and GOSH about son's progress

389 replies

LolafromA · 30/04/2023 14:00

Hi everyone. Posting it here as I need an advice. Thanks in advance.
Long story short… My son who is now in Year 4 had speech delay. While still in Nursery we were told by SENCO to sort out the funding and apply for an EHCP. Which we did. Didn’t get the place in the same school so we got accepted to another one. Of course, the new school did not need our ‘funding’ and supported our son using their SEN budget. Now we understand how SEN budgets work so I know we got tricked. During Reception year my son’s speech was developing rapidly. He was a sweet boy, very compliant, had friends, loved going to school and enjoyed learning despite speech problems. The teacher described him to me as having a ‘math head’. Which made sense since my brother is Physicist and my husband Cambridge Uni graduate (Astrophysics).
We got a place eventually at the school that we wanted (that advised us to get an EHCP) and my son started Year 1. He settled well and we received positive feedback about his academic progress. The teacher said he just needs to be more independent but they will work on it.
Now a month later during Parent Teacher meeting I mention to the teacher that my son is being assessed by GOSH (2nd opinion) for High Functioning ASD and I will be bringing forms to fill out about his behaviours etc. The teacher seemed surprised that our son has been diagnosed with ASD (my son is in Year 4 now and I am still not 100% sure but at the same time I realise that I am probably surrounded by aspies in my family (math gene is strong). My brother reminds me of Elon Musk a lot - very inteligent, based in Silicon Valley, studied Physics, Optical Engineer, geeky etc.
Now since I mention ASD, things change at school. All of the sudden I am invited for a meeting with SENCO, teachers and S&L Therapist and told my son needs one on one in Math and English lessons four times a week, lego therapy, of course S&L therapy. The amount of funding needed I was shown £12k costs.
At the same time my son (Year 1, has just turned 6) was assessed by GOSH professionals and the tests showed my son’s spelling is as a 9yo, Math - 8 yo and Early Reading Skills - 7 yo.
Because of Covid lockdown I found out these results only at the beginning of Year 2. It all made sense to me because I could not understand how this clever boy needs so much support. Remember I had to teach him during lockdown myself.
Year 2 started and I would ask my child if he has a TA. He would say that no and he is learning together with the whole class. I started questioning TA arrangements with the school and was told that my son has TA now. Later turned out TA was spending only 20 min twice a week with my son. Smoke and mirrors I know… Then another lockdown started from around Xmas. Again I got to witness my boy how easy he is to work with, how amazing memory he has, reads a text - answer questions correctly, comprehends etc So after the lockdown I started calling Local Authority as I felt we are being exploited. His EHCP was bringing the school extra 3k (top up funding). I ceased EHCP at the end of Year 2. Speech Therapist was giving him identical English lessons that I had to teach my son during lockdown myself. So I realised it’s another ‘smoke & mirrors’. The school tried hard to pursue us to keep an ECHP however I followed my gut feeling and told them to stop all the support as my child doesn’t need it. And guess what? My son had a good Year 3.
Meantime GOSH sent Educational Psychologist to observe my son (beginning of Year 3). Around Xmas I get a report from
Gosh and I can’t believe what I am reading. See below.

Cognitive and Academic Development
L cannot maintain independent learning without support and prompting. Mr X reported that L is reading at approximately a year 2 level (1 year behind). However, comprehension is a significant struggle; L struggles with inference and even simple retrieval of information he has read. Even with modelling, he struggles to answer basic questions.
Friendships and Relationships
Mr X reported that L had one friend, and that if that child were absent one day L would probably be on his own (e.g. during breaks), as he would struggle to join in socially with the other children. Mr X said that L does not have good social skills and only has one friend.
Mr X informed me that L previously had 1:1 support most of the time but now does not. Mr X feels that Lukas does need 1:1 support as he is unable to work independently without support.

Meantime a month before that above feedback to GOSH, SENCO’s reply to us:

In terms of verbal interaction, we would be looking closely at how he is doing so in the classroom.
There is no dispute that he is interacting well with his close friends in the playground. I also added into the annual review report about vour observations of him in the playground with other children.
Indeed, LA may feel that the TA support that L requires can be met by the class TA. I have made it clear that he does not need full time 1:1 in the classroom. It is quite normal to prompt other children from time to time, L just needs a little more than this. Mr P (Year 2 teacher) said that L is a lovely child to have in the class and easy to work with.

So after reading the GOSH report I go and speak to Mr X and ask how come my son’s reading is a year behind. Mr X replies ‘Don’t worry about L’s reading. His reading is fine!’ I said ‘Well I have just read Gosh report and it said this and this. Mr X suggests to speak about it all via Zoom when Parent Teacher meeting happens.
PS My son always had a group of friends and is a popular, soft spoken boy, polite and its all written in the End of Year Reports.
So during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mr X tells me my son scored above average in comprehension tests, has a group of friends, very good in mental math, has good vocabulary etc
I contacted GOSH and emailed all the correspondence (evidence) from SENCO regarding my son. Emailed all the evidence of how my son scored top mark 40/40 in Phonics and what Mr X said about his comprehension, friendships etc
GOSH right away arranged joint Zoom meeting with Mr X, SENCO and me. And all lies have been exposed. Complete silence from SENCO! They did not even try to defend their previous feedback.
GOSH said kids like L fly under the radar, his ASD case is subtle, he will do well academically and when he is a teen he may find it harder to fit in, may get depressed.
By the way GOSH Educational Psychologist in his report said he doesn’t see any anxiety in my son and that L is a very happy child from what he observed during PE lesson. Also at the end of Year 3 Mr X (Year 3 teacher) reported my child as very confident.
So Year 4 starts (this school year) and during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mrs F starts throwing hints at me how L has ADHD. I know.. lol I explained to her that he definitely does not. I studied and educated myself on both - Asd (subtle cases) and ADHD. SENCO gets called in. Complete silence from her. I leave the meeting saying how it’s time for us to have a meeting with the Headteacher which we did. I was furious! We had a meeting, brought up conflicting feedback to GOSH and was told it was Mr X’s opinion at the time about my son’s comprehension. Basically they had an answer for everything eg it was teacher’s opinion.
So I ended up requesting Subject Access Request (all educational records of my child since Year 1). Have a look at the image attached. My son never had comprehension problems!!!! In fact he scored high average!
My question here on Mumsnet would be - what do I do now? Report the school to Local Authority, Ofsted, Dept of Education? I complained to the Chair of Governors but received a reply with little answers. Mainly he advised to contact LA and was opologetic.
Every time my son has assessments now I ask the teacher Mrs F to email me his results. My son is excelling academically, she said he is mixing with the boys and girls, has a close group of friends which obviously I always knew since I organise playdates, meet with his friends/ parents in the playgrounds. I see how he interacts. You would not even know he has ASD but as I mentioned earlier, lets see how his teenage years go. Maybe that’s when I will see the symptoms.
As of now I need a realistic advice on what can be done to expose / stop the school doing this to another family.
Thank you.

OP posts:
Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 22:20

I get the impression that OP can accept her son getting a diagnosis if it’s Asperger’s and is fine saying he’s an Aspie-so long as he’s super bright and is going to be a mathematician or an astrophysicist-but doesn’t want a diagnosis of autism like he has been given.

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 22:48

ArcticSkewer · 01/05/2023 22:12

You're going to have to really spell it out, @gamerchick .

I've asked directly but no answer/didn't seem to start any bells ringing

If you are implying I have ASD I have to disappoint you.:-D I am lucky enough not to know what depression or masking is. No struggle in life whatsoever. Cherry on the cake - GOSH paediatrician observed me too and told me I don’t have it. You realise they look for an apple/ tree kind of thing? GOSH were very keen to meet my husband. Insisted on it but due to Covid restrictions it did not happen. GOSH were very interested in my brother and my husband. Both of them are Elon Musk types. My brother particularly.
Dr C talked to me about Aspbergers. This way she was directing us where to look. She was like ‘You realise Bill Gates and Elon Musk has it’. All of the sudden I realised I have similar people in my family. Ding ding..:-)
Anyway let’s finish this debate. I got an advice I needed.

OP posts:
Dinopawus · 01/05/2023 22:52

There's something I'm not sure about here. No HCP is going to tell someone they don't have a condition by looking at them. It requires a full assessment.

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 22:57

Dinopawus · 01/05/2023 22:52

There's something I'm not sure about here. No HCP is going to tell someone they don't have a condition by looking at them. It requires a full assessment.

While Dr was assessing my child at the same time she would be staring at me. She would ask my son a question and then look at me. I would nod my head as I understood at a time that she is non verbally asking if my son is telling the truth. Right after that she would take a note. I knew I was being assessed too. :-)

OP posts:
Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 22:58

GOSH paediatrician observed me too and told me I don’t have it.

Right.

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 23:04

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 22:58

GOSH paediatrician observed me too and told me I don’t have it.

Right.

Listen guys. If you think you are good at identifying a woman as having ASD over the Mumsnet comments. Think how professionals can pic up asd vibes just by meeting you. PS I worked with people all my life so reading faces was very important at my job. I loved that job and love people in general.

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 02/05/2023 00:15

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 22:20

I get the impression that OP can accept her son getting a diagnosis if it’s Asperger’s and is fine saying he’s an Aspie-so long as he’s super bright and is going to be a mathematician or an astrophysicist-but doesn’t want a diagnosis of autism like he has been given.

I think you’re absolutely right.

Samee20 · 02/05/2023 03:57

Wow, I am amazed with the kind of comments here. I know I will get harsh comments for saying this but some teachers do lie and all the politics which run in the background is difficult to understand for a parent unless we know someone from the education field (at a high level). People are talking about 2 medical providers confirming it but I sense as per OP's posts that it was majorly based on the school's report. I have told the OP to call the first speech therapist who diagnosed him and ask her what was the process followed before confirming it. Make it in writing. OP understands that her child has speech problems or had it and it got resolved because of SALT. ASD doesn't
get cured.
OP - please make sure you email the first SALT who diagnosed him to know of the process. Even if nothing, you will know your answers and peace of mind. Don't wait for his year report now as it has not much significance in the overall picture. Even if he gets a good year end report, doesn't mean the medical provider will remove the diagnosis. The longer it stays on the record, more difficult it will be for you to question them. No one here knows your child better than you. When in doubt, always ask. No one can assess you without your consent.
One of my spouse's friends son is shy even in secondary school, since primary school the teacher was after him to get an autism assessment. This dad didn't give consent. Apart from just being shy, it doesn't have any impact on a day to day basis, his son is academically doing good, very gentle boy, rarely any tantrums and I have always complimented about his behaviour. They are from HK. Teachers need to realise culture differences too, in some culture it is normal to have kids who are shy, i have heard of so many kids being referred to SALT within a week of joining school because they were busy observing the new environment and getting comfortable in their new space.

spanieleyes · 02/05/2023 04:35

But a diagnosis is not " majorly based on the school report" that is simply ONE piece of evidence that is used. I wish to God I could send a report to our multidisciplinary team saying " Oh yes, Fred does x,y and z so must be autistic, please provide a diagnosis" it would save me the 19 page parental questionnaire, the 7 page teacher questionnaire, the 5 page SENCO questionnaire and it would save the NHS the Ed psych observations, the CAHMS assessment, the SALT assessments, the parental meetings and the two years it currently takes in my authority to get anywhere near a diagnosis.

Samee20 · 02/05/2023 05:30

How much weightage is put on these few questionnaires usually - '19 page parental questionnaire, the 7 page teacher questionnaire, the 5 page SENCO questionnaire"? Were these questionnaires asked during assessment for this child? The OP hasn't mentioned any of this.
It sounds from OP's posts that Ed psych's observations were positive about her son and as per OP his speech has improved after SALT sessions.

Either of the two things has happened- the process was done right but OP wasn't informed of everything so she thinks that the school is responsible OR the process was not followed properly. It will be better for the OP to get in touch with someone whose child has been diagnosed with ASD to know how it works or to contact the SALT directly. If it was me I would do this.

whowhatwerewhy · 02/05/2023 06:23

Shinyandnew1
I get the impression that OP can accept her son getting a diagnosis if it’s Asperger’s and is fine saying he’s an Aspie-so long as he’s super bright and is going to be a mathematician or an astrophysicist-but doesn’t want a diagnosis of autism like he has been given.

I tend to agree with this , she's happy for him to be like all the other males in her family but it too much for her to accept his diagnosis of ASD . She can accept that he might well grow up to be like them but now has the fear that he might not .
She's now fighting the system that they are wrong, he doesn't need an EHCP , he's going to be fine .
Yes he may well continue to thrive in school but he might not , she will then need all the support she can get .
Op your child has a diagnosis trying to make it go away won't change who he is , but having support in place for when he / if he needs can only benefit him .

Maddy70 · 02/05/2023 06:34

They are putting his worst case scenario to obtain the support he needs.

Otherwise your son will not have his funding

MrPickles73 · 02/05/2023 06:46

My understanding is extremely difficult and time consuming to get an EHCP so not an easy thing to get. £12k is probably not massive and is what a third of a TA? A friend of mine has two kids with EHCPs and one has 100 per cent TA. She also complains that the TA is shared across the class so son probably uses him 1/6th of the time.

OP 's obsession that her relatives / son will be like Elon Musk seems odd?

Brewskipa · 02/05/2023 07:03

I get the impression that OP can accept her son getting a diagnosis if it’s Asperger’s and is fine saying he’s an Aspie-so long as he’s super bright and is going to be a mathematician or an astrophysicist-but doesn’t want a diagnosis of autism like he has been given

agreed - in fact I think OP specifically wants her son to be a “genius autistic” so he can be just like her obsession, Elon Musk. When in fact all the evidence suggests her son is academically average at best, and likely to struggle more in the future especially now she has removed his EHCP.

LolafromA · 02/05/2023 08:30

Brewskipa · 02/05/2023 07:03

I get the impression that OP can accept her son getting a diagnosis if it’s Asperger’s and is fine saying he’s an Aspie-so long as he’s super bright and is going to be a mathematician or an astrophysicist-but doesn’t want a diagnosis of autism like he has been given

agreed - in fact I think OP specifically wants her son to be a “genius autistic” so he can be just like her obsession, Elon Musk. When in fact all the evidence suggests her son is academically average at best, and likely to struggle more in the future especially now she has removed his EHCP.

Listen my husband was also average at primary (his mother even thought he was dyslexic) but then top sets at Secondary. To fast forward with no much effort he was accepted at Cambridge Uni. Says a lot! He said he was even thinking dropping math off as a subject at a Secondary.
You realise subtle autism is only about social skills?? Google Tony Atwood podcast, listen to it and then you will understand what I am talking about.
These famous autists is the only way I can relate my family men or my kid who excels in Math, Spelling, Grammar etc My kid understands a lot about space, science, math.
Plays chess and is good at it. Meantime my aspie son is getting ready for a playdate with the NT friends (one of his friends). X’s mom is picking him up at 9:115 this morning and taking him to her home full of kids. How normal, right?

OP posts:
Sirzy · 02/05/2023 08:37

You realise subtle autism is only about social skills?

rubbish on so many levels

Shinyandnew1 · 02/05/2023 08:39

Subtle autism
famous autists
aspie son
my family men

You seem desperate to dress this diagnosis up with euphemistic language.

Your son is autistic. He has been diagnosed as having autism twice by two separate multidisciplinary teams of professionals.

FloatingBean · 02/05/2023 08:44

You realise subtle autism is only about social skills?

No it’s not.

@Shinyandnew1 I get that impression too, but even if Asperger Syndrome was still given as a diagnosis OP’s DS wouldn’t be diagnosed with it due to the language delay.

@Samee20 School reports are only one part, OP has said her DS had an ADOS test, an EP assessment, SALT assessment, a pead assessment, and many GOSH assessments include a clinical psychologist &/or OT.

Gazelda · 02/05/2023 08:46

OP, for your son's sake, please stop fixating on Elon musk, Bill Gates, Your DH, Your DB etc.

This is your son's diagnosis.

Concentrate on what's best for him. Take on board the advice and expertise of the professionals who have assessed him.

Let your DS be his own person.

Work with support agencies and professionals, not against them.

Question what they say by all means. But don't disregard their findings based on a podcast or your own unqualified assumptions.

AbbaG12 · 02/05/2023 08:48

LolafromA · 02/05/2023 08:30

Listen my husband was also average at primary (his mother even thought he was dyslexic) but then top sets at Secondary. To fast forward with no much effort he was accepted at Cambridge Uni. Says a lot! He said he was even thinking dropping math off as a subject at a Secondary.
You realise subtle autism is only about social skills?? Google Tony Atwood podcast, listen to it and then you will understand what I am talking about.
These famous autists is the only way I can relate my family men or my kid who excels in Math, Spelling, Grammar etc My kid understands a lot about space, science, math.
Plays chess and is good at it. Meantime my aspie son is getting ready for a playdate with the NT friends (one of his friends). X’s mom is picking him up at 9:115 this morning and taking him to her home full of kids. How normal, right?

Will you stop describing neurotypical behaviours as "normal." It Is insulting to those with ASD.

You're not listening to a word about the development of aspergers and ASD. Many ASD kids struggle just with social skills. You're so desperate for your child to be some sort of gifted person instead of just focusing on what he needs now. You're picking and choosing which information to give so it gives a certain impression.

You said your son had a great Y3 and yet he was disruptive (which you admitted he called out etc but it was due to his friends). People explain you son has a low comprehension score and a high reading score (something ASD People find tricky ) you ignore it.

You have two, two, diagnosis of ASD. One from the top place in the world. You ignore it.

All you want is for your son to be counted as an aspie. A totally outdated concept. One that many ASD people find offensive if you'd care look up the history of it.

Your son is unique, like every child, regardless of diagnosis. You have no idea of his future. You need to focus on your child today and give him what he needs today. If you feel he doesn't need help, fine. But stop wasting people's time by pushing this ideology on them that he's going to be some gifted genius. You have no idea of telling.

hiredandsqueak · 02/05/2023 08:54

Your son had language delay so even when an Asperger's dx was a possibility he wouldn't have got an Asperger's dx because he wouldn't have met the criteria.

whowhatwerewhy · 02/05/2023 08:56

Hi op , please take the blinkers off regarding your son . Every child with will be different some will be sociable some struggle, it's not one size fits all .

Mummynew08 · 02/05/2023 08:58

Please don't assume children with autism are more likely to go to Cambridge. Or even that because your husband did, your son will. You will crush your son with your expectations and I've seen this hundreds of times (I have responsibility to help the Oxbridge applicants at my school).

I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you only look at the famously gifted celebrities with ASD. Adults with ASD can have very ordinary middle-salary careers, just like NT adults.

I wonder if this is something you need to read more about, to help you understand your son's diagnosis - maybe buy some books about ASD and about ADHD.

gamerchick · 02/05/2023 09:12

The fact the OP keeps using aspie and aspergers, despite being told it's fucking offensive and outdated just makes me think this is a wind up even more tbh

Pinkflipflop85 · 02/05/2023 09:13

gamerchick · 02/05/2023 09:12

The fact the OP keeps using aspie and aspergers, despite being told it's fucking offensive and outdated just makes me think this is a wind up even more tbh

Indeed.