Eltham College Blackheath Prep Merger

[TJsAunt]

Just announced. So many questions - they claim both schools will remain as they are but surely there will be changes? Worrying...

@TJsAunt

It's not ideal with inflated grades but I think you need to look at how they might have arisen, as I don't think it was anything sinister. Lots of leading schools including Winchester College (alma mater of Rishi Sunak) and St Paul's Girls School (consistently the top school in the country) suffered from elevated results during the TAG years.

So, a few reasons possibly for this: (a) leading private schools generally provided a much better provision than state school or smaller indies, (b) TAG was based on a large amount of coursework evidence, including assessments done online/remote. Coursework (or online/remote assessment) is never going to be fool proof as some parents do get involved (not just during Covid years) and presumably professionals were able to work from home during lockdowns and so were around to 'guide' their kids more; and perhaps this is particularly true at the more competitive/academic schools as those listed above and Eltham), (c) private schools tend to use iGCSEs which anyway has a lot more CW content, so more evidence going back a few years as they often run a 3-year GCSE course too.

So, I really think it was hard for teachers but don't believe that schools intentionally manipulated grades but that inflated grades are a result of more CW and remote learning assessment being included in the TAGs.

As for 90% scholarship - that's not even allowed and never heard of anyone getting 90%, never!! I have heard (third-hand) that scholarships can get to 50% (e.g. sports/music + academic) but not even heard of anyone getting 50% off academic only e.g. Most academic scholarships are probably 15-30%, and sports around 10-15%, some possibly to 25%. The school does have bursary schemes and did take on a handful of students from Ukraine who obviously will be on full bursarships. Colfe's, on the other hand, have been known to offer 25% sports scholarships to kids who would not even be assessed at Eltham!

There is definitely an informal sibling policy, in the sense that if a child passes (whatever that means) and has an older sibling at the school they tend to be favoured ahead of external candidates. And why it's a community orientated school. Again, compared with e.g. Colfes, Trinity etc, there are no tests from junior to seniors. Maybe if they did re-introduce that, Eltham would see a hike in grades.

As for Colfes beating them soundly - I think Colfe's reported GCSEs 37.5% 9 compared with Eltham's 37% (not a big difference!). Eltham reported 85% 7/8/9 v Colfe's 84%. So on par, I would say!

At A-level, Eltham reported 44% A* v Colfe's 39.5%. Honestly, very happy for Colfe that they're doing well, it's a great school.

Wow, @lookatthat2, there are at least 12 comments from you within the last week, with unusually detailed information fiercely defending Eltham College. Can also see that you have not posted anything else on mumsnet ever before. Could understand why we may think that you are EC staff in disguise, LOL. Time to change to an account with a different username, perhaps, to make it look like there are independent "defenders" of EC :-) ?

I'm not staff, I don't think I'd mentioned sibling etc if that was the case. ;) No, just a parent, who realises that no school is perfect but I am a stickler for facts.

I've posted lots and lots on MN but I always name change as I find it creepy when people look into your posting history!

I actually find it creepier that someone feels the need to keep changing their username in order to hide the full range of their posts on MN.

A simple search for posts on mumsnet is surely publicly available information and not at all creepy to look for.

I don’t know why there’s so much emotion around EC! It’s a good school and works well for families nearby. I also think DC is more prestigious and parents (especially those with sporty kids) will go for DC over both offers. I don’t know anyone who commutes 1 hour plus to Eltham but know several who commute 1 hour plus to DC.

We had offers from both but chose an entirely different school, ranked higher, farther away (as pushy parents do, as PP said) but we have seen lovely, academic kids come out of both schools. It’s not really worth agonising over. Rankings can change at the drop of a hat!

However, I stand by my belief that the EC - BP merger is a bad idea and has created a lot of ill will for the school in the area.

@TypsTrycks - I agree I found DC much bigger, more traditional, much posher. Not just the grounds, the whole thing.

I also found Alleyns quite arty farty and Sevenoaks School too laissez-faire and liberal (kids on phones at lunch etc). Those two had quite a creative vibe for me and I suspect a different parent group.

I found Westminster too academic and urban etc. I think I just could not find any one school that was perfect. So there is the truth- no school is perfect. However, in the end I just realised that I was more of a state school parent somehow. So I was destined to see faults in all of them. Colfe’s and Trinity somehow had more of a state school vibe. I think Colfe’s is ex grammar. I hate facade, pretence, corporate and shiny suits in an educational environment. I don’t even like the macadamisation of state schools aka slimy chains. If it was down to me, schools would be run by teachers taking turns on a rotating council rather than suits.

I personally think EC should be down to earth given its location and increase its secondary school places. However, it seems to be doing the opposite, at least on the outside to someone who just has a look around and has listened in to what neighbours have to say about it. Because we could afford private schools we really did have a close look at them, but in the end, I just didn’t find the right fit.

@Intergalacticcatharsis Yes DS goes to one of the schools you mention, we loved the vibe and felt it suited DS’ personality. That’s what it is at the end of the day - what works best for you, your DC and your housing situation. It will 100% vary from parent to parent. Am fairly certain DS will get similar results at this school to what he would have got at DC or EC. What sold the school for us was the cultural fit/opportunities to thrive.

Not sure if any of you have followed the A-level results but Eltham had a very good set of results ahead, I believe (thought some of the other schools have not been transparent re % of A*) Dulwich, Colfe's, Trinity etc...

A lot of it depends on the cohort but it was very unfair to write off EC compared with some of those others, I thought.

LoL, I truly believe that you are actually the Headmaster of EC and knew that you'd be back here soon to advertise :-)) Dear Mumsnet staff, please investigate these posts from lookatthat2 , I really sincerely think they are not genuine posts written by a mum. I have the right to freedom of opinion and this is what I truly believe.

LOL. I'm definitely not staff but I didn't particularly like the tone in some of the earlier quite accusatory (and unfair) posts. I believe in balance and restraint and having a civil tone. Across life in general.
All schools mentioned on this thread are extremely good, but it seemed unfair to point out Eltham, and cohorts change from year to year...

MN please do investigate as I'm not staff, nor ever have been at Eltham! Never have, never want to, work at a school although I have the utmost gratitude to teachers everywhere.

Talking about a civil tone, there is a record on this thread (28/07/2023 at 11:51) where you called me "creepy" for simply pointing out publicly available information such as the fact that your username did not previously post anything on mumsnet, but that you did post 12 posts within the space of a single week in July with unusually detailed technical info trying to defend Eltham College. Dear Mumsnet, please investigate @lookatthat2 's comment about me from 28 July (described above) as I find it very offensive to be called "creepy" for simply pointing out widely available info in the public domain!

Blimey. I said 'I find it creepy when people..... so a very general comment. I don't know anything 'technical' that is not known to lots of people whose kids are at Eltham. Most of my friends at EC or other schools are fairly sociable and know lots of people so hence we're aware of what is going on.
It is feeling a bit like a personal vendetta. I only posted about my experience and knowledge of Eltham and defending the school as I'm actually (believe it or not) very happy with it, and the discussion all seemed a bit one-sided.
I'm leaving it at that as this is feeling a bit uncomfortable now...

@lookatthat2 - As you mentioned "uncomfortable" and "accusatory posts", just going to repost here for completion of the records your own recent MN posts to TJs Aunt: "posted by lookatthat2 on 23/07/2023 11:15. I still wonder what is your skin in the game? Are you an admissions tutor at one of the other schools e.g. Colfe's, St Dunstan, Dulwich? ;) So again, @TJsAunt why such animosity towards the school? What is your relationship to it? Did your child/ren not get the school place (wherever that might have been) that you'd wanted?"

I really don’t think any admissions staff or management would ever be so unprofessional as to post on Mumsnet about their school or a competitor school. Just saying.

More likely a number of disgruntled parents vs happy parents at the school itself. Private school is an investment people wish to fiercely protect until their child has left (at least), and often beyond that.

If Eltham has good results this year, that is a good sign.

In fact there has been some unusual activity in recent weeks on a related MN thread and that post was deleted by MNHQ -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/4813844-shall-i-move-him-back-to-his-previous-school-eltham-college-to-x-school: "GuySanderson · 26/05/2023 14:47. This reply has been deleted. Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines"

maybe it actually was Guy Sanderson and he had just not understood how Mumsnet works 😂

People are so weird about schools.

The deleted post on the other thread in May was obviously someone “being funny”. Not sure it can be counted as unusual activity with all the negative implications that implies.

The exam results at A level this year were good at EC. As a parent that feels like good news but I’m well aware that might not actually be the case for my own children as there’s always outliers 😂

There does seem to be a peculiar level of animosity to EC - it’s just another privileged private school in London, one of many. As I said upthread, a whole storm was whipped up about the COVID results by the usual media suspects and there was possibly some poor judgement applied. But much has been made in the last week about so many pupils missing their predictions this year and really that’s what COVID grades were. In a bright cohort you may well have 75% of students CAPABLE of achieving an Astar but we all know they won’t necessarily achieve it in a real exam because one might break up with their boyfriend/girlfriend the week before, 3 might get the “wrong” questions on the day, I had 3 girls in my year who lost their dads to suicide in the 2 months running up to our GCSEs etc etc. But Tags/Cags didn’t allow for that - how could a student be randomly picked as the one that “might” have dropped a grade in a real exam?

As I said before, I don’t think Eltham is perfect, but I don’t think any school is 🤷‍♀️

Re: post "GuySanderson · 26/05/2023 14:47". No, actually it is not obvious at all – there is no real evidence that the deleted post from 26 May was just “someone being funny”.

I wish I'd screenshot it now as it seems so bonkers 🤣 Do you remember what the comment was? I remember reading it but can't remember what it said.

It's about as far from what I would expect Mr Sanderson to do as it's possible to get and I'm assuming there would have been no need for a deletion if it was him but...🤷🏼‍♀️

Just a quick update on the merger, specifically the early test Blackheath Prep kids can take to head to Eltham.

marketed as being a way to avoid the stress of the 11+.

13 of this Y6 decided to go this route. Bright kids- within the range who normally get into Eltham and who BP had happily put forward for the test.

only 4 got offers. 4?!

that leaves 9 kids branded as rejects before the main 11+ process even starts.

@TJsAunt is the early test for B Prep in Y5 or Y6? I thought it was in Y5 and they get another opportunity with the whole cohort in the January of Y6.

Four plus a couple more offers from the real 11+ would still put Blackheath Prep ahead of its usual offer numbers (I don't think they get more than 4 or 5 offers normally). But the whole early testing thing is obviously a marketing ploy as it doesn't seem to be helping Blackheath Prep boost its offer numbers or Eltham in getting lots of smart kids early on.

@TJsAunt - what does “within the range” mean? Current year 5 and 6s at Eltham Junior are meant to be a very clever cohort and they get tested twice a year. They are clever because it was the years the school went co-ed first and there was tons of hype.

Perhaps this lot from BP was not on par? If the school know they are going to get the best applying at 11 plus why take the lower performers?
People with children who are not stellar academically need to join Eltham Junior in Year 3 and pay the higher fees at prep. Isn’t that obvious?
Ask the school what the average CAT scores are for those years 5 and 6. It is probably much higher than you would expect.

Kids with Cat scores 135-141 always have options. They will either stay at Eltham with scholarships, go to eg St Olaves, Newstead, Westminster, Alleyns, Jags or Sevenoaks.