Page 32 | Why is 6th form thought of more highly than attending FE college ?

Summersunshinee · 2023-04-09T16:24:41+00:00

I can never understand why if you say that you attend 6th form at school you are thought of more so than if you attended FE college. I would feel that if anything it would be more impressive to attend FE college as you made the decision to go somewhere else and try something different /

pointythings · 05/07/2023 18:47

Everyone who doesn't agree with your warped view of education is a snob.

So yes, I'm a snob. I'm proud to be a snob. A snob who supports all young people, not just the ones you approve of. Happy to wear that badge all. Day. Long.

OverCCCs · 05/07/2023 19:33

For the love of god, stop bumping this thread OP. We can all tell by the bracketed formatting which you’ve been accidentally inserting into comments that you’ve been getting part of your answers from AI tools.

This is long past the point of being pathetic now and I have to imagine that there isn’t a single FE college that wants you to be carrying the banner for them.

TeenDivided · 05/07/2023 19:41

Mixed ability classes for maths at GCSE level would be disastrous for all.
Maths & Science GCSE both have entry tiers too.

How can you possibly teach the grade 9 level topics and still be reminding that minutes have 60 seconds in them not 100 within the same class? It would bring total frustration to everyone.

It was hard enough for my DD in primary with kids calling out answers before she had even processed the question. And I remember being pretty bored from being the top of the top set in maths because I 'got' things so easily.

But you know that really. You're just messing with us.

pointythings · 05/07/2023 19:43

OverCCCs · 05/07/2023 19:33

For the love of god, stop bumping this thread OP. We can all tell by the bracketed formatting which you’ve been accidentally inserting into comments that you’ve been getting part of your answers from AI tools.

This is long past the point of being pathetic now and I have to imagine that there isn’t a single FE college that wants you to be carrying the banner for them.

Not very good AI tools at that.

Fairislefandango · 05/07/2023 19:46

I have not said I want to move anyone "down".

Why are you putting 'down' in speech marks? It was you who referred to refucing the gap between the 'top' and 'bottom'. If you're not wanting to bring anyone down, I presume you must think it's possible to bring the bottom up to the level of the top then? That's not possible.

DollyTrolly · 05/07/2023 19:51

Serious question. As you work in careers advice. Have you ever had to advise kids who aren't academic at school and are/were disruptive about future employment/education/training routes and what was your advice ?

Yes, of course I have. Every careers adviser working in a state school has......

However, last time you asked me to explain my approach to careers guidance you didn't bother to respond to my lengthy post so I'm not sure you actually want to hear what I have to say.

TeenDivided · 05/07/2023 19:53

Mixed ability teaching isn't necessarily more true to real life anyway.

I spent my whole working life working with maths / physics / engineering graduates.

Mixed ability schools? yes.
Mixed ability tutor groups? yes.
Mixed ability for some subjects in KS3? yes.

Mixed ability for maths at GCSE level? No way.

Horses for courses. Let people play to their strengths after GCSEs. I have no idea why the OP is so against letting people follow their strengths and interests at age 16. How expensive would it be to teach bricklaying to a budding doctor, and then to have to still teach all the science on top. It's not as if our education system is swishing around in excess funds.

Original poster

Summersunshinee · 05/07/2023 19:54

DollyTrolly · 05/07/2023 19:51

Serious question. As you work in careers advice. Have you ever had to advise kids who aren't academic at school and are/were disruptive about future employment/education/training routes and what was your advice ?

Yes, of course I have. Every careers adviser working in a state school has......

However, last time you asked me to explain my approach to careers guidance you didn't bother to respond to my lengthy post so I'm not sure you actually want to hear what I have to say.

Just wondering what your approach would be and what you would suggest ?

OP posts:

pointythings · 05/07/2023 19:56

Just wondering what your approach would be and what you would suggest ?

All you have to do to find out is scroll back through the thread and find out.

DollyTrolly · 05/07/2023 19:58

I'm not sure what you are expecting me to say tbh.
Good careers advisers take a person centred approach so work with the individual. It doesn't matter if they're academic or not because you speak to them about what they want to do. The only time it becomes an issue is if predicted grades don't match their career ideas, but then you just explain and talk through their options.

PettsWoodParadise · 05/07/2023 20:32

@Summersunshinee

I have friends I have known for over 40 years and I am the only one who got a degree, all of the rest went to college. They wouldn't have thrived in the sixth form I went to and I wouldn't of in their different colleges. At that point in our educational journeys we all did the right thing. For us. Not for someone who had a chip about academic environments.

I have seen 'experiments' of mixed ability classes and the bright children get used as tutors for those struggling. Those struggling feel dim, those tutoring feel used and bored and don't reach their full potential and as others have pointed out just dragged down. The only winners are the middle ones and even then they can sense the decay and depression in the classroom so not the perfect environment. Some teachers are amazing at what we are all told is 'differentiation' but in reality it is a tool that only works in some subjects and definitely not in Maths.

You say you have suggested you want more subjects available but you've repeatedly said you want to scrap loads of subjects. You are contradicting yourself.

Moredramathanrazzamatazz · 05/07/2023 21:20

Because people are snobs and often don't know what they are on about.

pointythings · 05/07/2023 21:23

Moredramathanrazzamatazz · 05/07/2023 21:20

Because people are snobs and often don't know what they are on about.

I suggest you read the full thread and then think about whether you want to say that again...

Original poster

Summersunshinee · 05/07/2023 23:13

PettsWoodParadise · 05/07/2023 20:32

@Summersunshinee

I have friends I have known for over 40 years and I am the only one who got a degree, all of the rest went to college. They wouldn't have thrived in the sixth form I went to and I wouldn't of in their different colleges. At that point in our educational journeys we all did the right thing. For us. Not for someone who had a chip about academic environments.

I have seen 'experiments' of mixed ability classes and the bright children get used as tutors for those struggling. Those struggling feel dim, those tutoring feel used and bored and don't reach their full potential and as others have pointed out just dragged down. The only winners are the middle ones and even then they can sense the decay and depression in the classroom so not the perfect environment. Some teachers are amazing at what we are all told is 'differentiation' but in reality it is a tool that only works in some subjects and definitely not in Maths.

You say you have suggested you want more subjects available but you've repeatedly said you want to scrap loads of subjects. You are contradicting yourself.

So you believe in elitism and that people should be segregated and treated differently ?

OP posts:

Original poster

Summersunshinee · 05/07/2023 23:40

DollyTrolly · 28/06/2023 09:30

I believe academic study and vocational should be hand in hand as we need both.

We do need both, but they don't need to be the same person.

It's important that we allow people to specialise otherwise the phrase ' jack of all trades - master on none' springs to mind.

Also I wanted to come back to this point.

Being "a jack of all trades" isn't a bad thing in my view and been a careers advisor you should be able to recognise this.

If you have experience and skills in many areas this makes you more employable and shows you are able to learn new skills and try new things.

May I ask @DollyTrolly have you ever had a normal job as some of the points you raise don`t suggest this.

OP posts:

bruffin · 05/07/2023 23:40

@Summersunshinee
Why do you not want doctors, engineers, scientist , how do expect students to become these if they are only allowed to be mediocre.
Why dont you want everyone to meet their full potential
Why do you want to drag every body down to the lowest common denominator
Why dont you understand that everyone is different and we need all sorts in society and everyone has different

bruffin · 05/07/2023 23:42

so pressed too soon
everyone has different needs

Original poster

Summersunshinee · 05/07/2023 23:48

bruffin · 05/07/2023 23:40

@Summersunshinee
Why do you not want doctors, engineers, scientist , how do expect students to become these if they are only allowed to be mediocre.
Why dont you want everyone to meet their full potential
Why do you want to drag every body down to the lowest common denominator
Why dont you understand that everyone is different and we need all sorts in society and everyone has different

I have not said that I don`t want these professions.

People will always rise to the top if they work hard enough and won`t be mediocre as you put it.

I don`t want to appeal to the lowest common denominator, i feel everyone should be reaching for the top.

I just feel that a curriculum with more vocation opportunities and doing away with some of the less needed academic areas would be better.

OP posts:

PettsWoodParadise · 06/07/2023 07:03

Summersunshinee · 05/07/2023 23:13

So you believe in elitism and that people should be segregated and treated differently ?

Show quote history

No I don’t say that anywhere. Also not on any of my other posts. It is not elitist to have choice. It is not elitist to have the best environment to reach your potential whatever you are studying.

What is your definition of elitist @Summersunshinee ? I get the impression from all your posts you want homogeneous education. The current education system provides choice but choice does not equal elitism.

pointythings · 06/07/2023 07:28

Your 'less needed areas of science ' have already been shown to be essential to some key professions that underpin our world, so they are fictitious. Wanting everyone to achieve their best is the opposite of elitist. Offering everyone the teaching that is tailored to their abilities is the opposite of elitist.

Yours sincerely,

Snob

TeenDivided · 06/07/2023 07:38

Perhaps we need to turn this on its head for the OP?

Some very lucky people have the skills and aptitude to do well at practical vocational work such as motor mechanics, bricklaying, plumbing.
They need to have the opportunity to do that away from kids who are less interested/skilled and who will just muck about in lessons.

Other kids who aren't capable/ interested will just have to go off and do A levels or other vocational but non practical work such as Travel & Tourism.

You shouldn't force the ones capable of doing plumbing into something else such as Physics A level just because you think it would be good for them to have a mix.

If a student is lucky enough to have the choice between plumbing and A levels they should be given a free choice understanding the pros and cons of both. You shouldn't force them one way or another based on snobbery or prejudice.

DollyTrolly · 06/07/2023 07:55

Being "a jack of all trades" isn't a bad thing in my view and been a careers advisor you should be able to recognise this.

In some cases this is true, others not so much.
I don't want a doctor, dentist, plumber, electrician, teacher etc who is a jack of all trades. I want them to be experts in their particular area.

If you have experience and skills in many areas this makes you more employable and shows you are able to learn new skills and try new things.

You're confusing being a jack of all trades with developing transferable skills. And in some jobs having a wide range of transferable skills is important, other jobs less so.

May I ask @DollyTrolly have you ever had a normal job as some of the points you raise don`t suggest this.

May I ask why you keep being so rude to me? I've been nothing but patient in answering your questions, some of which have questioned my professionalism and ability to do my job. You've asked people not insult you personally. Please offer me the same courtesy.

Anyway, define 'normal' job. I've worked since I was 14 and I've had lots of jobs. All of them recognised jobs or professions so i'm not sure what you are getting at?

bruffin · 06/07/2023 08:33

"If you have experience and skills in many areas this makes you more employable and shows you are able to learn new skills and try new things"

But you claimed my DS lifeguard job had no future. Yet he learnt a lot of transferable skills which help him with people management for the job he is in now managing projects and mentoring other degree apprentices. My DD also used her lifeguarding to work in US summer camps as a counselor for children with SN and as i said above DS is now a paediatric OT.

DollyTrolly · 06/07/2023 09:08

bruffin · 06/07/2023 08:33

"If you have experience and skills in many areas this makes you more employable and shows you are able to learn new skills and try new things"

But you claimed my DS lifeguard job had no future. Yet he learnt a lot of transferable skills which help him with people management for the job he is in now managing projects and mentoring other degree apprentices. My DD also used her lifeguarding to work in US summer camps as a counselor for children with SN and as i said above DS is now a paediatric OT.

The OP is just tying themselves in knots now.
So many contradictions because they refuse to admit that anyone else has a valid point!

Needmorelego · 06/07/2023 09:13

@bruffin the OP didn’t respond to my suggestion of going into politics.
Maybe because you do need quite an academic educational background for that….