Why is 6th form thought of more highly than attending FE college ?

[Summersunshinee]

I can never understand why if you say that you attend 6th form at school you are thought of more so than if you attended FE college.

I would feel that if anything it would be more impressive to attend FE college as you made the decision to go somewhere else and try something different /

Oooooh the man whose name we do not speak! 😂😂

Indeed, but isn't it great that we have finally found someone whose ideas are even worse? And not just a bit worse, but full on go big or go home worse. 😂

It is quite an achievement!

@DollyTrolly and @pointythings Coincidently i`m glad neither of you are in charge of education in the UK.

If it was upto you two we would have no trades people or entrepreneurs by the looks of it.

Everything would fall apart and break.

Also everyone would be poor and not take risks to make themselves rich or encourage trade with other nations.

If it was upto you two we would have no trades people or entrepreneurs by the looks of it.

Everything would fall apart and break.

Also everyone would be poor and not take risks to make themselves rich or encourage trade with other nations.

Please, please explain how anything I have said suggests any of the above?

Because quite clearly I have not said that I don't value vocational education, trades or entrepreneurs.

What I have said is that people should not be forced into learning a trade against their will and that I value education for education sake.

How does that translate as what you've suggested???

@DollyTrolly You have not said anything positive about either.

You are a careers advisor ? so tell me about a time you advised someone to take up a trade or start their own business ?

In my experience careers advisors just tell people to either be nurses or secretaries, prove me wrong !

Also why shouldn't people be forces to learn something practical ? after all everyone needs to read Shakespeare ?

If it was upto you two we would have no trades people or entrepreneurs by the looks of it.

This is what we in the biz would call 'a lie'. Because neither of us have said this. Nobody on this thread has said this.

Also why shouldn't people be forces to learn something practical ? after all everyone needs to read Shakespeare ?

Lots of people on this thread, myself included, have said that beyond the essentials needed to function in modern society, nobody should be forced to learn a subject they do not want to learn. So very simply put: I would like to see an education system where nobody is forced to read Shakespeare. This means having a Functional English option after year 8/9. I would also like to see an education system where nobody is forced to learn anything vocational beyond year 8/9 (before this time everyone does DT, which includes design, catering and some woodworking).

So kindly now remove the anti academic chip from your shoulder and join the rest of us who want to see more choice, not less.

You are a careers advisor ? so tell me about a time you advised someone to take up a trade or start their own business ?

I spent years working as a careers adviser in schools so will have conducted thousands of career guidance interviews over the years. I have supported hundreds and hundreds of young people in accessing apprenticeships and college courses. You don't tend to get many 16 year olds starting businesses but I've run entrepreneurship days and events in schools both as a careers adviser and in my role as a school governor.
Currently I work as an academic at a university teaching career guidance and development and have designed a module on enterprise and entrepreneurship.
I recently delivered training to academics in my faculty on T levels as I'm an advocate of vocational education and it offering access to higher education and I'm currently developing a degree apprenticeship.

In my experience careers advisors just tell people to either be nurses or secretaries, prove me wrong !

Careers advisers don't tell people to do anything. That's not our job at all. So yes, you're wrong.

@Summersunshinee when did you attend school? How old are you?
I don’t think “be a nurse or a secretary” has been typical careers advice since the 1970s 🤣
You’ve also said some strange things about the curriculum that seem very outdated.

Outdated how ?

Also the careers advice I got at school was a joke.

Also the careers advice I got at school was a joke.

Again, knowing when you were at school would help offer an insight.

I don`t see how this matters but ok.

I left secondary school in 2003.

@Summersunshinee I can’t be bothered to go back and read all your posts but you have said things like how schools should be teaching cooking and budgeting (they do already). You’ve said things about Religious Studies lessons which are different to what is actually taught in the subject (clue….it’s not just simply about religions). You’ve said about how they should be teaching things like electrical wiring and building skills (they do already). You don’t seem to understand how a subject like drama could be helpful for more than just a “fun after school” club.
Those are just a few examples I can think of right now.

When do they teach electrical wiring and building skills ?

Also explain how drama can be helpful ?

I don`t see how this matters but ok.

I left secondary school in 2003.

Of course if matters! Education ( including career guidance) is a hugely political process. What you will have experienced at school will have been heavily influenced by the policies implemented by the government in power.

So, In 2003 career guidance in England was delivered through Connexions partnerships and as the Labour government at the time were focussing on social exclusion, those at risk of dropping out and becoming unemployed or those considered the hardest to help were prioritised. If you didn't fall into those categories then you may have received minimal career guidance..... assuming you went to school in England. If you went to school elsewhere it would have been influenced by local politics.

Last Saturday my DS (the one with the health issues who has wanted to be a marine biologist all his life and is now following that dream at uni, having not done any vocational courses) performed his poetry at a large venue in front of an audience. He was engaging, articulate, took his audience with him the whole way even though he was very nervous.

That would not have been possible without GCSE Drama. You want to make it an after school club subject when it is capable of giving young people a confidence and strength that will serve them in every possible future career - especially in entrepreneurship where you have to sell things, most of all yourself.

Give your head a massive wobble.

Also explain how drama can be helpful ?

Drama can be very useful in developing confidence, public speaking skills, communication skills, emotional intelligence and creativity . It can help with team work and leadership and critical analysis.

All skills that are valued by employers

Not encouraging vocational courses. shame on you.

Oh and OP..... I notice you've not bothered responding my post which replied to your request for 'proof' 🤷🏼‍♀️

Not encouraging vocational courses. shame on you.

You're just making shit up now .....

As can doing something like plumbing, electrical or bricklaying.

Again not seeing the big picture.

As can doing something like plumbing, electrical or bricklaying.

Did anyone say they didn't? You asked about drama so people responded....
If you want to know what transferable skills plumbers have I can tell you but that wasn't the question.

Again not seeing the big picture.

You really don't do you.

Electrical Wiring and building skills would come under DT.
What does Drama teach…..
Public speaking. How to talk clearly and confidently (very useful if you need to do a business sales pitch).
How to communicate/behave in a way that might not actually be the way you want to be - if you are working for a client you don’t like you have to “act” that you like them.
If you were a lawyer for example you would need these skills if you were in court. Imagine you are defending someone who you know has done a crime - but you would have to “act” in a way to essentially try and get this person off or a low sentence even though really you don’t want to - but it’s your job.
Drama is good for memory skills. Learning lines or remembering a scene. All good memory skills.
Drama can take you out of your comfort zone by having to pretend to be someone you are not.
For what it’s worth I hated drama with a passion at secondary school and often refused to join in. My 3rd year (Yr 9) teacher and myself had some pretty intense discussions about why I hated it so much.
At the time I didn’t realise the usefulness of drama as a subject. I do now as an adult. I didn’t do drama as a gcse subject. I believe at that age it should be optional. But before that - a very useful subject.

@Summersunshinee

When do they teach electrical wiring and building skills ?

DD was taught about basic wiring in science classes, Brownies and Physics. You don't learn everything in school or college, I remember my Dad first teaching me how to wire a plug and replace a fuse. I've taught my daughter what to do if all the lights go out in our house, it is called parenting. Sometimes its called YouTube.

For 'building skills' I am going to assume you mean construction or engineering skills as you keep focusing on manual skills (rather building general life skills which could be the other interpretation).

DD did a certificate in Engineering alongside her GCSEs, she got to design, build, manufacture and operate a water pump as just one example. Her cousin in design technology got to make a cabinet. My friend's son is doing a course in carpentry but they also get to learn basic bricklaying.

Whilst on the topic of not everything is taught in school or college the modern driving test has improved greatly, DD had to point out key parts of the engine and now know things I didn't know before so my daughter's learning has taught me. We have to seek opportunities to learn and not expect them to all be in traditional places or ways. My dad learnt on the job as an apprentice (no day release to college back then!) and after 7 years became a Master Printer.

So if you are intelligent, how come you seem to be reading things incorrectly, drawing the wrong conclusions and telling people they said things they never did?

Is it that you don’t understand anyone else’s points or refuse to? I expect it’s just bloody mindedness but I am impressed that posters are still trying to get you to broaden your understanding of the issue. I think you should thank them!