Why is 6th form thought of more highly than attending FE college ?

[Summersunshinee]

I can never understand why if you say that you attend 6th form at school you are thought of more so than if you attended FE college.

I would feel that if anything it would be more impressive to attend FE college as you made the decision to go somewhere else and try something different /

@Summersunshinee not ALL 6th Forms will only do A-Level Business and not Btec/equivalent Business Studies.
Some do offer it. They are ALL different. Offering different options, subjects, styles of teaching etc.
You appear to believe that all 6th Forms are exactly the same as the ONE you seem to have experience of. They aren’t.
The same goes for colleges. Again they are all different in the way they teach and what they offer.
Are you going to ask me whether my child will be attending 6th Form or College? What do you think going by my responses to you?

The Army could be a good opportunity.

Plenty of training opportunities.

The Army could be a good opportunity.

Plenty of training opportunities.

Well yeah..... obviously being a careers advisers I'm fully aware of the opportunities 🙄

My oldest's best friend from school joined the RAF after GCSEs. You do need 3 GCSEs at grade 4 to 9, two of which must be English and Maths so some academics are required. She got more GCSEs than that and was the first in her family to ever pass any GCSEs and we were all incredibly proud of her. She also put in enormous amounts of work to pass the fitness requirements.

She couldn't complete the training because she sustained a serious physical injury that turned out to have permanent effects, but she's now independent, working an admin role in a care home, in a good steady relationship and living her best life. Vocational was absolutely right for her.

Where's your respect for someone who took the academic route and stayed at school because it was what was best for them, OP?

Where's your respect for someone who took the academic route and stayed at school because it was what was best for them, OP?

Exactly. What is actually wrong with the route?

I'm the only person in my family to stay in education beyond GCSEs ..... I stayed at my school sixth form because I liked it and they offered the subjects I wanted. I flourished in that environment and it hasn't held me back.

@Summersunshinee You missed my questions of evidence for your views, quoted above.

Dare I, dare I, I dare...

There's other things going for sixth form. Positions of responsibility and the opportunity to mentor younger pupils. Playing for the first team at sport (my older's son's dream was to play for the first team in the three major team sports).

Charity work (our school arranges a week away to provide respite care for people with disabilities). Drama, music, DT (the pupils have made the final of the VEX Robotics Competition in Texas).

Careers advice, careers fairs, UCAS advice, talks from ex pupils in certain jobs, helping with work experience. Feeling of being in a school community.

There's opportunities like these on both sides. I have friends whose kids have enjoyed a more informal and less academically pressured set up at sixth form college. Isn't it great we have the choice of both...?

They should at least go to an open/taster day and see what college is like, see what options are available so they can make a balanced decision.

College can offer similar responsibilities/opportunities.

College can offer similar responsibilities/opportunities
Our local college doesnt, it offers more work experience but does not encourage mentoring or posiitions like prefects or Headships or student councils or extra curricular sports or clubs

@bruffin nor does our nearest college. Whereas our local school 6th form did. DC2 did mentoring and learning support for yr 8 and 9 in History. Did a lot of fundraising too. Stuff they didn't do pre 16 so yes, new experiences, new people.

They should at least go to an open/taster day and see what college is like, see what options are available so they can make a balanced decision.

As a careers adviser I would encourage that.
Also, schools implement something called The Gatsby Benchmarks and one of those benchmarks specifically states that pupils should have encounters with FE and HE.........however, some young people STILL want to stay at school if that option is available. And that's okay 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh, and there's something called Provider Access Legislation which means schools legally have to ensure that ALL pupils are aware of ALL the options available to them.

This forms part of the ofsted schedule so when a school is being inspected this will be looked at..

@DollyTrolly You have surprised me as i thought you were pro school but you are quite balanced.

@DollyTrolly You have surprised me as i thought you were pro school but you are quite balanced.

Maybe there's a lesson here....don't make assumptions!

What made you think I was pro-school?

As i explained, I'm a qualified careers adviser and one of the first things you are taught is importance of impartiality.

My DCs school organised taster days at 2 colleges in our nearest town, so they both went. It just wasn't for them. Many of their peers went there though.

@DollyTrolly I just feel that you came across as pro school earlier on.

@pointythings You didn't try hard enough to convince them I feel.

I feel the best approach up to 16 would be to split the curriculum 50/50 academic and practical.

That would allow practical students to succeed where they may fail in some academic subjects.

Also more academic students it would teach them about failure if they can`t hack any practical subjects.

Changes i would make to subjects,

Merge English and English literature into 1 subject.

Pre-GCSE teach simpler maths and incorporate things like budget planning, how credit card`s, mortgages etc work. (leave Algebra, Pythagoras etc to A level).

Merge History and RE into one subject called something like world affairs.

Reduce the amount of science (no tripe science).

Bring in mandatory practical classes in computing, cooking & food prep, have introductory classes to thing like brick laying, minor electrical skills etc.

Art/design i would keep .

Business and enterprise. Try and get guest speakers in to talk about entrepreneurship etc.

Keep music and drama but make them after school clubs only.

I give up. You're either an AI (and not a very good one) or you are completely incapable of learning and understanding. Only you can know which.

@pointythings I`m giving my opinion. Also some people have criticised me for wanting to get rid of re and history my new proposal addresses this amongst other things.

Well, I am pro school if that's the right choice for someone. I'm also pro college and pro apprenticeship if those are the right choices for an individual.
Which is the main point many of us have been making.

On the other hand you come across as distinctly anti-academic.
Your suggestions show a distinct lack of understanding of the curriculum.

You are looking at this from your narrow, personal perspective. The subjects you don't value or enjoy get relegated to after school clubs with no thought of the consequences.

Your lack of understanding of curriculum and subjects mean you think it's appropriate to merge subjects almost arbitrarily. Yes, history and religion have some overlap but they are distinct subjects in their own right.

As for leaving some aspects of the curriculum to post 16.... well, how would you access a student ability and suitability for maths A level if they'd only ever studied practical financial literacy rather than theoretical maths? They also need those building blocks to be taught earlier in their education.

@DollyTrolly OK then what changes would you make then ?

Why do you assume I think the curriculum needs changing?

The one thing I would (and do) advocate for is more careers education and careers guidance to be delivered by qualified careers practitioners.

I think we should leave subject curriculum content to the experts 🤷🏼‍♀️

@DollyTrolly you have the patience of a saint. You have made all the points I was going to make before I lost the will to live.

Changes I would make are those already made by @MrsAvocet who is an actual teacher and like you has an actual clue.

A functional English qualification as a GCSE option. Not instead of lang/lit but as well as. I am not about dumbing down and removing choice. A functional maths GCSE as per the above. Vocational choices alongside the academic ones. Functional science, ditto. No other changes, just giving everyone the opportunity that is right for then.

And lastly, the removal of the anti academic chip from a certain poster's shoulder, for which heavy lifting equipment will be required. Honestly, OP, let go of that resentment and life will be beautiful.

I do wonder why I'm still responding tbh!

I've always been of the mind that education shouldn't just be functional which seems to be the OPs view.

@DollyTrolly it's utilitarianism taken to a ridiculous extreme. Even the Govester didn't take it that far.