Why is 6th form thought of more highly than attending FE college ?

[Summersunshinee]

I can never understand why if you say that you attend 6th form at school you are thought of more so than if you attended FE college.

I would feel that if anything it would be more impressive to attend FE college as you made the decision to go somewhere else and try something different /

I don't really understand this. In my experience colleges offer the same curriculum as 6th form. Surely it's all standardised? Obviously there's a difference in what subjects are offered, but there's a big range between individual schools and colleges too. If you do Math A Level, won't it be the same curriculum regardless of where you're doing it?

Snobbery against colleges is terrible and shouldn't exist, but the idea that colleges are non-academic isn't logical. I was very academic, did my A Levels at a FE college (English Lit, English Lang, Maths, Physics, and AS Environmental Science) before going to university then postgraduate work, also in the STEM field.

Obviously each child should have the education that's right for them. For some kids that's pure academia. For others, vocational. For others, a mix. And yet others, leaving sooner. It's personal choice that's crucial, not a one-size-fits-all approach.

You obviously cannot drag highly gifted students down and put blinkers on them, that's deeply unfair and harms society. No forces non-academic kids into academic pathways (well, some individual parents do, I'm sure, but that's a different situation). Having to sit a couple of academic subject at GCSE level doesn't count, since that's such a basic level. I genuinely believe every child (barring severe learning disabilities) has the capacity to pass English and Maths GCSE if they have decent and sympathetic teaching and good family support, and if they don't, it's because adults or the system has failed them. No one is forcing non-academic kids to do Maths A Level so why force academic kids to do vocational subjects post-16?

You probably wish the 11 plus was still nationwide, agree with selective grammar schools and gifted & talented programmes.

Not the poster this was aimed at, but yeah, I do. What's wrong with that? There were serious issues with the way the 11+ was implemented (eg questions designed to privilege students from certain class/cultural background; students passing the 11+ but not being able to go due to cost, etc.) but the 11+ gave a much needed leg up and opened the door to many gifted working class students who otherwise would have left to rot. Gifted and talented children exist and need proper support and nurturing to help them make the most of their abilities.

On the flipside, non-academic kids desperately need better support and options and need nurturing too, because the UK doesn't have adequate vocational training, and a snobbish culture of looking down on vocational qualifications and people who do those jobs.

@pointythings Why anyone would want to go from one school to another is baffling.

To you, obviously. But if you are an academic young person and there is no 6th form in your local secondary, then it's what you have to do in order to follow your passions and your interests. That's just common sense. Basically depending on your skills, interests and talents you either finish school at 16 (and go to college/do an apprenticeship) or you finish school at 18 (and go to university), in which latter case it doesn't really matter that you're going from one school to another.

Secondary and 6th form aren't always a seamless continuation anyway. In our local 6th form there is no uniform at all, students don't have to be in the full school day if they have no classes scheduled and students are expected to be responsible for their own learning - it is after all preparation for university. The same applies to those students at our 6th form who do vocational subjects.

@Summersunshinee all schools are different so people switch schools for 6th Form all the time.
Some 6th Forms still have uniforms, some insist on "business wear", some have no uniforms at all.
Some are "traditional" schools with 6th Formers being prefects and head girl/boy, others the 6th Form has zero to do with the rest of the school and the younger students.
Some have excellent science and technology facilities, some their focus is art and have excellent art facilities or a fully functioning theatre for drama, some have loads of amazing sports facilities.
Some schools are single sex but another school mixed.
Not all 6th Forms are the same - they are all very different.
That's why some 16 year olds switch from one school to another.
I'm suprised you can't figure that out.

In our LA there is a boys school and a girls school which become mixed sex at 6th form, a lot of the girls end up at the boys school for 6th form and one or two boys have gone to the girls school.
There is a lot of movement between the schools at 6th form level. Both my dc did the rounds of open evenings for 6th form.

@flurbubbly For me the 11+ is a product of teh past and should not be nationwide.

Although if it was i feel it should be spread over say 5 tests and also allow promotion and relegation as it were for kids that failed but improved later on and vice versa for under performing kids.

@bruffin But no open day for college I notice.

How many times do you need to be told that the local college did not do A levels so didnt bother with DS .
I think DD did go to the Open evening for the college but chose school because she wanted to do A levels rather than BTEC. She did actual end up at the college doing btec,but as mentioned previously they had very low expectations

@Summersunshinee I actually agree with you on the 11+, but that's because I come from the Dutch system where there is flexibility to move between types of school for people who discover their talents later. The 11+ as it is handled in the UK is a shocking waste of talent and needs in depth reform (and I passed it in 1978 when my parents were debating whether or not to stay in the UK after my father's secondment - they decided against and went back home, but I would have gone to grammar school and no doubt been happy there).

@bruffin Why did the college have low expectations ?

@pointythings Nice to see you agree with me on something.

I have no idea, but i explained it all in my previous posts

I see it may have go lost in this thread.

Do any parents encourage college over school ? as on here it seems not to be the case ?

Why are you being so weird? Are you recruiting for colleges?

You asked why kids stay on at school. Many answered. You asked again so teendivided replied and summarised the points. You then argued with her points when she wasn’t even arguing against college, but just explaining the rationale for many students.

What do you want from this thread?

And why is your font going weird?!

People on here do, and have done. Go back and read the thread. Are you able to accept that college is right for some and 6th form is right for others? Because literally nobody has said that one is always better.

Except perhaps you.

I really think we need to step away now.

Possibly, but I enjoy a futile argument. This one is almost as much fun as talking to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

My son keeps desperately hoping that one day the Mormons will call so that he can sing Hello at them.

We get Mormons too, but they tend to be very young and not as much fun to argue with. The JW guy I had a while ago actually gave up and left of his own accord. I did warn him first thing that I'm an atheist feminist socialist pro choice pro environment ally of the LGBT community so he knew what he was letting himself in for.

To be fair it was a robust but mutually respectful conversation.

@RetinaRouge and @pointythings

I know but more people have chosen school for some reason.

Don`t know why my font is doing that.

@Summersunshinee that's just on this thread though, and MN skews towards the demographic that is more likely to have been university educated themselves. This isn't an accurate reflection of UK society.

And even on this thread it's been a mix with quite a few people having one child on the A level track and another going the college route.

@pointythings Mabey you are right.

I would support mixed ability classes to reduce the gap between the top and bottom and reflect real life better.

@Summersunshinee our local school (standard comprehensive) takes a mixed approach. Humanities, arts, music, drama and English are all taught in mixed ability classes. Science and maths are set. I think that makes sense, because in those subjects it doesn't benefit those at the top or those at the bottom because the former will be bored and frustrated (and may well become disruptive) and the latter will also be bored and frustrated (because they cannot access the content and therefore may well become disruptive).

And that means those in the middle also don't benefit, because they are surrounded by unhappy fellow students. It's not possible to teach maths in a mixed ability environment - this is why there is such a thing as Foundation and Higher tier exams. It's the same with the sciences - the students doing triple science will be working through a third more content in the same timetable space, so the pace will be much faster. There's differences in both pace and content that can't be eradicated.

In the other subjects I mentioned, mixed ability teaching is much more feasible because unlike the sciences and maths, there isn't necessarily a correct answer - only one in lesser or greater depth, so everyone can access the content and do something with it.

Lastly, as I have said many times before, and which you seem unable or unwilling to understand, you don't narrow the gap by keeping those at the top down. Inappropriate mixed ability teaching still does that. You narrow the gap by bringing those at the bottom up - by providing appropriate teaching in appropriate subjects (excellent vocational, functional maths, English and science) I'd also support a separate grading system from the 1-9 - in BTECs you can get a Distinction, and that is a meaningful top grade.

Is this some kind of sixth form college recruiting bot gone rogue?

Seems very weird that a real human would carry on asking the same question about something which has clearly been demonstrated as 'horses for courses' (not to mention that in some areas sixth form college is the only provision for that age of education).

@SmartHome if it is, the A lacks I.

Yes, I do agree with this.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a system designed to identify and create pathways for academic and bright working class/low income kids, but the idea of it being a single highly pressured written exam is not the right way to go about it. There should be options for bright kids who don't do well in exam conditions but show promise in coursework, or even in non-written work, for example.