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Pagan faith school / college

258 replies

DaughtersofFrya · 06/04/2023 18:28

There are many faith schools, but no Pagan ones, and I'd be interested to hear some opinions on the subject. Would you like to have attended one, or would you consider sending your children to one in the future, for example?

OP posts:
Fairislefandango · 08/04/2023 11:27

Oh dear. I don't think these people sound like they ought to be in charge of running a school of any kind.

Sherrystrull · 08/04/2023 11:30

Oh my goodness.

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 11:32

well, bending your knees for 6 hours a day worship is not going to be compatible with doing teacher training, or with running a school.. ( or with being able to walk a few years down the line, I suspect)

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2023 11:41

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 09:30

The other thing that bothers me is that you may attract some very difficult children. I suspect you are going to want to support and educate them, rather than exclude them, but you will need to be very well prepared for all sorts of problems, threats, violence, drugs, promiscuity, running away, etc

Nah. All about keeping control of the scantily clad virgins until they are 25 by the sounds of their manifesto for ruling the country.

A Birmingham Aryan Vestal Virgin School/Prison doesn't sound like anything anybody should be even considering, never mind encouraging.

miniaturepixieonacid · 08/04/2023 11:42

I would be careful about going through all the work of getting PGCES if you are all at the same stage. It might be a total waste of time because, to become a qualified teacher, you have to take your PGCE and pass your ECT years (Early Career Teacher - 2 years - has replaced the Newly Qualified Teacher year). To be an ECT you need an experienced teacher as your mentor and assessor. So (I think) you'd all have to go and work in normal schools for 2 years before you could be qualified and work together in your own school.

I am completely fascinated by this idea and I was rooting for you but, if the link upthread really is your group, it sounds kind of like a cult and not suitable for children. Appreciate the name is likely just a coincidence though. I'm guessing a group of just 7 people don't have their own website?

marcopront · 08/04/2023 11:42

monsteramunch · 08/04/2023 11:16

Good grief. I wonder why the tunic has to be short. That'll be a nice thing to teach the kids.

And do they have to wear those boots?

I am sorry but that looks like some man's sexual fantasy.

miniaturepixieonacid · 08/04/2023 11:49

Woah - has anybody clicked on the New Settlement for the UK PDF? They have a full manifesto on how to reorganise the whole of the UK along Pagan lines!!

I do not think this is OP's group ...

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 11:51

miniaturepixieonacid · 08/04/2023 11:49

Woah - has anybody clicked on the New Settlement for the UK PDF? They have a full manifesto on how to reorganise the whole of the UK along Pagan lines!!

I do not think this is OP's group ...

I dont think so either, this is ( like Steiner) a branch of paganism with its roots in nazi race science, that doesn't sound like the OP, does it

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 11:52

These daughters of Frya people were Himmlers ideal, wern't they.

maybe Frya is just a common Pagan name

2ndGenerationHomeEducator · 08/04/2023 11:56

Have you considered becoming a child minder OP? It isn't as hard to be one with school aged children.
I would consider something like that 1 day a week, or maybe 2 afternoons. But you may have takers for a few days if parents are using it for childcare rather than something for enrichment. Around here, most would be interested in this sort of thing for enrichment.
Instead of Christmas plays based on Christain mythology, a little play about the solstice, would be beautiful. Little rituals around the wheel of the year, where each child can offer a little something to one or more of their gods/ goddesses would be lovely too. In fact, if you set something like this up, can you PM me where you are? I would be interested. If you're fairly local, within an hour or sos drive, I wouldn't mind even meeting to brainstorm ideas!

As others have said, it would be difficult to gear it exactly towards a specific pagan path. But it can be generally pagony.

2ndGenerationHomeEducator · 08/04/2023 11:59

But, I don't think anyone would be interested in a boarding school for it.
Paganism is about connection, nobody would want to send their children away. There just wouldn't be the market for it.

donquixotedelamancha · 08/04/2023 12:16

this is ( like Steiner) a branch of paganism with its roots in nazi race science, that doesn't sound like the OP, does it

Ironically they follow a 19thC hoax book of 'pagan' rituals that became popular with the Nazis and was a foundational text of Himmer's Ahnenerbe. So they have absolutely no connection with paganism at all.

has anybody clicked on the New Settlement for the UK PDF? They have a full manifesto on how to reorganise the whole of the UK along Pagan lines

I like the bit about how OP's group of priestesses should form the judiciary and commanders of the armed forces for the UK and helpfully get rid of all the immigrants.

RiaOverTheRainbow · 08/04/2023 12:18

What drew you to the Daughters of Frya, rather than other branches of Paganism or nature-based lifestyles?

CollieFIower · 08/04/2023 12:23

I still maintain that Steiner schools are closer to Christianity than people realise.

They have extremely close links with The Christian Community - many Steiner schools have a branch of this near the school and staff/parents go there, school events are held there etc etc.

Granted, it's an extremely weird type of Christianity but it's definitely Christianity!!

The Christian Community

movement for religious renewal

https://www.thechristiancommunity.co.uk

ColonelSpondleClagnut · 08/04/2023 12:36

I was really hoping that the OP would come back and say "Oh no! Of course that's not our group - just an unfortunate name coincidence!"

🫤

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2023 13:00

ColonelSpondleClagnut · 08/04/2023 12:36

I was really hoping that the OP would come back and say "Oh no! Of course that's not our group - just an unfortunate name coincidence!"

🫤

Just waiting for the thread to disappear in a puff of recognisable in real life safeguarding now.

2ndGenerationHomeEducator · 08/04/2023 13:05

I have just looked at the thread a little more, far from the whole thing. And a look at website.
Your whole set up does seem a bit cult like. To me, it doesn't sound very pagan, certainly not from any paths I've heard of. It's a bit like a weird off branch of Christianity labeled as something else. I just don't think some of those ideas are compatible with any form of paganism. This sort of thing is so detrimental to the associations people make when they hear paganism.
I agree with above comment, Steiner schools are Christian, though a weird form of it. But Christian all the same, I would argue some catholic influences too. But not catholic. It's a funny one. Wouldn't consider a Steiner setting for my pagan children. (unless I had some lengthy discussions about how they have made it secular. In which case it would be pagan-friendly).

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 13:18

CollieFIower · 08/04/2023 12:23

I still maintain that Steiner schools are closer to Christianity than people realise.

They have extremely close links with The Christian Community - many Steiner schools have a branch of this near the school and staff/parents go there, school events are held there etc etc.

Granted, it's an extremely weird type of Christianity but it's definitely Christianity!!

No, it is the exact opposite of Christianity - for example Christians believe that if you beleive in Jesus Christ you can be forgiven every sin, and and have a relationship with God - that is the fundamental basis of the Christian faith - and the Steiners believe the exact opposite, you get exactly what you deserve every time, broken leg, lost job, mother has dementia - it is all entirely your own fault, and you will be reincarnated as a greater or lesser being next time round depending on what you deserve.

Steiners dont have any beleif in Jesus what so ever, however, they may use some Christian words, (inappropriately) such as all children have a guardian angel who wont let anything happen to them that they dont deserve... bullying , lukemia, etc

Its roots are nazi, which is not Christian at all - and many Steiners will not be nazis, obviously, but its roots are from Nazi Geramny, as are this Daughters of Frya group - both are from nazi occultism, and founded in the years before the nazis took power, but propagated through the nazi machine.

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 13:20

ColonelSpondleClagnut · 08/04/2023 12:36

I was really hoping that the OP would come back and say "Oh no! Of course that's not our group - just an unfortunate name coincidence!"

🫤

Yes, I was hoping that too, but maybe the fact that they have not returned means it really is them.

so I am feeling more than a little foolish now.

2ndGenerationHomeEducator · 08/04/2023 13:25

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 13:18

No, it is the exact opposite of Christianity - for example Christians believe that if you beleive in Jesus Christ you can be forgiven every sin, and and have a relationship with God - that is the fundamental basis of the Christian faith - and the Steiners believe the exact opposite, you get exactly what you deserve every time, broken leg, lost job, mother has dementia - it is all entirely your own fault, and you will be reincarnated as a greater or lesser being next time round depending on what you deserve.

Steiners dont have any beleif in Jesus what so ever, however, they may use some Christian words, (inappropriately) such as all children have a guardian angel who wont let anything happen to them that they dont deserve... bullying , lukemia, etc

Its roots are nazi, which is not Christian at all - and many Steiners will not be nazis, obviously, but its roots are from Nazi Geramny, as are this Daughters of Frya group - both are from nazi occultism, and founded in the years before the nazis took power, but propagated through the nazi machine.

Whatever it is - it is definitely formed from the Abrahamic religions. Whilst there are differences between the Abrahamic religions, they come from the same thing and are many similarities between them. To be honest, Im guilty of it myself, but many do say Christian when they mean Abrahamic.
Steiner is 100% Abrahamic. They celebrate some Nature festivals, but a lot based around ideas from Abrahamic religions. It is not the opposite of Christianity and there are similarities.
Also, if was obviously longer ago than the Nazis, but Christians have done horrific things and over a much longer period of time to spread their religion.

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 13:27

2ndGenerationHomeEducator · 08/04/2023 13:25

Whatever it is - it is definitely formed from the Abrahamic religions. Whilst there are differences between the Abrahamic religions, they come from the same thing and are many similarities between them. To be honest, Im guilty of it myself, but many do say Christian when they mean Abrahamic.
Steiner is 100% Abrahamic. They celebrate some Nature festivals, but a lot based around ideas from Abrahamic religions. It is not the opposite of Christianity and there are similarities.
Also, if was obviously longer ago than the Nazis, but Christians have done horrific things and over a much longer period of time to spread their religion.

I am sure they have! But there is no link between steiner beliefs and christian beliefs, beyond steiner misusing some christian words. But then look at "Christian scientists" - not Christian either.

CollieFIower · 08/04/2023 13:38

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 13:18

No, it is the exact opposite of Christianity - for example Christians believe that if you beleive in Jesus Christ you can be forgiven every sin, and and have a relationship with God - that is the fundamental basis of the Christian faith - and the Steiners believe the exact opposite, you get exactly what you deserve every time, broken leg, lost job, mother has dementia - it is all entirely your own fault, and you will be reincarnated as a greater or lesser being next time round depending on what you deserve.

Steiners dont have any beleif in Jesus what so ever, however, they may use some Christian words, (inappropriately) such as all children have a guardian angel who wont let anything happen to them that they dont deserve... bullying , lukemia, etc

Its roots are nazi, which is not Christian at all - and many Steiners will not be nazis, obviously, but its roots are from Nazi Geramny, as are this Daughters of Frya group - both are from nazi occultism, and founded in the years before the nazis took power, but propagated through the nazi machine.

Look, I'm not defending Steiner and I'm well aware of the Nazi links. I wouldn't send my own DC to a Steiner school if it was the last school on earth after my experience and after what I've learned as an adult about Steiner.

But my actual literal experience of a Steiner education, and having parents who were full on anthroposophists, and of being dragged round Camphill communities and to Steiner events up and down the country for my whole childhood, was that it was broadly Christian in nature but with a bunch of weird shit added in. There are buildings that are to all intents and purposes churches, called "The Christian Community", that have incredibly close ties with Steiner schools. It's where the serious Steinerites in any given area get married and have their baby blessings and funerals. Maybe it's not a Christianity that other Christians recognise, but they call it Christian, they identify it as Christian. They literally call it 'The Christian Community' - if other Christians want to disown it and say it isn't Christian then fine, but having been to more events inside those buildings than I could begin to count, it felt pretty Christian to me.

And as far as Jesus goes - well, we had to sing Now The Green Blade Riseth in assembly every Easter and there was a gnome/crystal garden in the garden of one of the founders of the school that was reorganised every Easter to represent the Garden of Gethsemane on one side and the hillside with an open stone tomb on the other. I know this because my class got taken to look at it several years running! That feels a lot like believing in Jesus to me, and having spoken to lots of people who went to lots of different Steiner schools it was a fairly typical experience.

I mean, I think it's all bollocks (and that's me being charitable). But I know for a fact a lot of it was Christian (or at least Christian influenced) bollocks!

CollieFIower · 08/04/2023 13:39

Ok fair point about Christian Scientists. I'm not a religion expert. I just know what I lived through!

2ndGenerationHomeEducator · 08/04/2023 14:27

Nimbostratus100 · 08/04/2023 13:27

I am sure they have! But there is no link between steiner beliefs and christian beliefs, beyond steiner misusing some christian words. But then look at "Christian scientists" - not Christian either.

There are many branches of Christianity. There are absolutely cross overs. I know at the Steiner school around here, they do a nativity. They teach Christian mythology as fact. There is absolutely heavy Christian influence, it is different to mainstream Christianity, but the Christian influence is absolutely there. Enough for it to be classed as Christian, even if it is different to mainstream Christianity. Definitely not pagan as some have suggested. Just because they are heavy on Nature and art, doesn't make it pagan.

I don't know anything about Christian scientists, can't comment much. I agree you can't 'believe' in what we know from Science, especially rooting back to Ancient history and prehistory and believe the bible is anything but some fables. Obviously most people cherry pick - 'bible literalists' is the phrase used, within Christianity for those who believe wholly in the bible. But I think depending on your field of science, it can be compatible with Christianity

RamblingEclectic · 08/04/2023 14:52

Of the pagans I know and have worked with in education, community and multi-faith activities, I don't find them any more dissatisfied with the education system compared to any other group or have any more issues of the oversimplified version of faiths found in the curriculum, including Christian parents - some of them are very dissatisfied. Some do home educate, but none I know for religious reasons - like most, it tends to be about local schools on other issues like behaviour or additional needs.

I could see interest in pagan online or forest courses for kids. Those have exploded in recent years, I know some forest nurseries that also run holiday clubs for school-age children, but a whole school seems like biting off a lot. Many new school end up inadequate, and that's more likely when it's more fringe whether by faith or narrow education like the issues many UTCs are having. There are also home education camps that include courses for the week or two that they run.

What you're describing sounds more like a home education co-operative than a regulated school, especially the whole 'only teachers we already know/in our group' thing. Those are legally fine when parents aren't leaving their children to be educated. Those are not daily, those are usually weekly if not less frequent. I don't think you'd get many in that with the requirements given or for residential.

A lot of Pagans gave answers like Heathen, Wiccan, Druid, or a host of other names for specific branches within Paganism.

Not all of people who identify with those would also use the term pagan or view those as 'branches within Paganism'. That's part of the issue.

There are people who have a polytheistic, animistic, or pantheist faith system who hate the term pagan because, as others said, it's rooted in others identifying others with non-Abrahamic beliefs. Modern use by some doesn't change that particularly for long standing groups who view themselves as different to neo-pagans. Plenty of polytheistic, animistic and/or pantheistic groups pray or invoke their divines in other ways - trying to claim prayer is only monotheist is weird, as there are monotheist groups who don't pray (some lean more towards silent contemplation and listening) and we have what we might now call pagan prayers from polytheistic writers in some of the oldest remaining writings we have.

I should also add that we are an all-female group, if that assuages any potential concerns.

No, it doesn't. Women can be abusers too. Celibate people can be abusers. Basic safeguarding - no group affiliation or personal traits assuages potential concerns. There is a reason why in recent years we've been getting more historic reports of abuse from closed community schools - hiring only your own is a safeguarding nightmare. It's part of why there is growing push against faith schools from many people across all faiths and none and support for governing boards and staff to be of a wide range of backgrounds. For safeguarding reasons and just to get the best people when recruitment is a major struggle, the widest net improves practice and wide range of backgrounds reduces the risks of blind spots and brings about more ideas.

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