Is it worth going 'all out' for high GCSE or A levels?

[mids2019]

I work in the public sector and recently having been involved in recruitment the applications I see make no mention of A levels and although university attended is stated there are instructions to not bias against any university and only consider degree classification.

I don't know how widespread this practice is but there definitely seems to be a focus on widening participation and to some extent this means widening the range of degrees allowable for various professions (and by default reducing minimum A level requiremnts).

time will tell on the ultimate consequence of this strategy but for school children now is it worth it honest to tell them that a high number of high grade academic qualifications will lead to significant advantage in employment prospwcts?

the educational arena is now complicated with a range of vocational qualifications which public sector employers are now told to have equivalence with more academic subjects.

or honest

No.

To the point!

Surely children/students should try their best regardless of whether they are doing GCSEs, A levels, T levels or degrees to give themselves the most options going forward. Why wouldn’t you encourage people to do their best?

No and there are multiple threads about it. Most employers now are only interested in your most recent qualification. So if you do a degree, stellar a levels and GCSEs are irrelevant

I suppose it just depends if you want to get I. To 'better' colleges and universities.

But it's all a bit pointless, so many people go to university now it's not anything "special"

To be fair, that’s been the case for at least 30 years.

I guess the thing is OP, they won’t be disadvantaged by trying their hardest, but they might be disadvantaged if they don’t. And generally one set of good qualifications open up the door to the next set of good qualifications.

@LizziesTwin

I absolutely agree and I certainly wouldn't advocate not trying your best in anything. I think the debate is whether is any significant mileage in getting the GCSE/A level profiles often mentioned in MN.

I suppose there may be a debate about whether it could disincentivise school children by them knowing that a lot of avenues remain open despite (relatively) low grades (contentious I know)

I have kids doing gcse and a level and I find its a hard thing to balance their stress versus ensuring they're doing their best. They need more stress management than anything at the moment as they're hard workers so when they worry about grades I tell them they only need to worry about getting the grades that will allow them to reach the next step.

When they've needed motivating we talk about how rewarding it will feel to open that envelope on rewards day and see the fruits of their labour and know they've done their absolute best.

I don't ever want them to feel gcse and a level results are everything and that it would be the end of the world if they didn't get all As or something.

@00100001

there are a huge number of graduates now but that does make recruitment a real challenge when you are explicitly told not to bias against university i.e. be university blind. I wonder if more store is out on interview and personal statements now and so we should really impress our children on the importance of softer skills?

@Fatkittythinkitty

Very sensible.

The debate now is what really is necessary for the next step as this is quite subjective in that it is really down to institutional judgment and importantly employer requirments. To some extent academic qualifications are used a s a filter and possibly a coarse one; in the public sector at least there are a lot of moves to what some perceive as barriers to particpation.

I think my son is learning a lot of study skills and exam technique during his gcses that will help through his A levels and Degree if he goes on to do one. So i dont see the point of not trying to get the most out the experience he can. They are a gateway qualification for many to do higher level exams, but many others its the only set of exams they do before entering work and doing other level 2 skills qualifications.

I dont think pressure to get high grades is sensible, but throwing yourself into the stage of life you are at is a good attitude.

His brother has SEN and wont do gcses so I think he feels a bit like he has this opportunity loads of people dont get and he wants to give them a good go but he also know there are lots of other pathways if they dont go well so they arent make or break.

Many places do still look at GCSEs and A levels. I recruit post MSc and we still set store by a decent grade in A level maths. Too easy to get good degree grades now.
My son is applying for a summer internship now between 2nd and 3rd year at uni and vast majority of applications have included GCSE and A level results. Government is exception.

But it's not always a means to an end. My daughter is doing Alevels this year and plans in entering a field where the grades are not that important (creative, so it's all about the portfolio). But she still is working to get her A and A stars, simply because in her mind why do it if not to the best of her ability and she enjoys the subjects? Though it also will act as a back up should she decide to pursue a more academic route in the future.
Conversely my son scrapped through his GCSEs and did a vocational qualification. In his field no one gives a toss how many exams or how well he did, it's the other skills he has that counts.
I certainly do not believe university is the holy grail. I think children should be encouraged to pursue avenues that suit their abilities and character. But it is hard to know this at the age they need to decide.

You may as well do as well as you can - but I think best to see it as your PB (personal best) that you might be aiming for in sport.

They are still used as a crude filter for next stage so good gcses will mean easy to do the a levels you want. Good gcses give you pick of uni courses. But there are other routes than the direct ones.

I think in terms of job success doing well at school gives you confidence that goes over well at interviews.

There is some doubt that means f-all about whether you can do the job. Hence big coporates lowering/removing degree grade requirments - and also as others have said - inclusion.

We tell our DC that GCSE and A level results are only important to let you get to the next stage. So GCSEs allow you to do the A levels you want and A levels allow you to do the Uni course that you want (or apprenticeship or whatever). So you only need what the college/Uni ask for and anything above that is a bonus.
DD got all 9s at GCSE but she did it because she wanted to and was capable of it, it wasn’t necessary which took the pressure off

Universities are pushing "Graduate Attributes" to help students stand out.

If 40 people are applying for a job and the all have first class honours, then these attribute programmes are helping candidates stand out from the crowd.

Well, to do some a- levels you need to have achieved at a certain level in GCSES. To do some degrees you need to achieve certain a level results and then to go on to do the relevant masters/PhD you need a 2.1 or a 1st.

E.g. local 6th form requires 6s in maths, English and science to do a science a level. University requires between CCC to AAB in 'academic' subjects for a level, including maths or science to do psychology. Doctorate in clinical psychology requires a 2.1 or a 1st.

My view is that trying your best is important at any stage, each stage provides entry to the next stage so it is important, also employers often look at all qualifications for the complete picture. Covid will I think mean they will look even more at the complete picture. At the end of the day we all have different skills and interests so its will depend on what is relevant

It depends what you want to do.

I needed good GCSEs to get into the sixth form college I wanted to go to. I needed a B and 2 C grades at A Level at least to get into the University I wanted. Some people needed 3 A* for their uni of choice.

Employers look at the most recent qualification. So if you want to go to uni or you want to get a job instead of uni, A levels/gcses matter most. If you don't want to go to sixth form college, GCSEs matter most. Some employers specifically ask for Maths and English GCSEs.

Kids should be encouraged to try their best at anything they do and are capable of whether that is 11 or 8 GCSEs. A levels or vocational courses or extra curricular. For some it is part of developing and testing their resilience. I tell mine that they should work hard and do their best as they don't know
What they will learn along the way, which will give them more options to change trajectory if they want to.

There are for more options and pathways now which is the right way but I think we are still a few generations away from equality in Academic vs Vocational.

Why would you not do your best and risk closing doors to opportunities? And where does it end? Not bothering to do your best at work either? Why bother working at all? Working hard and achieving results based on that hard work (not just exams, but anything) gives a sense of well-being, doesn't it? What's that saying? Nothing worth having comes easy?

Both my DC are doing exams this summer, I'm supporting them both in their revision to hopefully achieve their individual bests.

For some degrees universities look at GCSE - medicine and Oxbridge spring to mind. I think that just doing the minimum to get to the next step is a poor attitude to have.

I agree that getting into good study habits helps. DD is bright, but can't coast. She needs to work hard for good results. She worked hard for her GCSEs, A levels and degree, and it paid off. She walked into a job straight after graduating, and the soft skills and confidence she is gaining from this job will go a long way in securing a good career in the future. (This job is a fill in as she wanted a break from studying between undergraduate and post graduate studies)

Interesting posts.

I absolutely agree with promoting work ethic and a child trying their best and maybe if nothing else GCSEs and A levels can be viewed with this in mind.

Possibly this a public sector issue but with no knowledge of A level results and explicit instructions to not consider university you are left with a CV with no independent assessment of veracity of author. There is an interview but it's a bit of a lottery who gets invited and the interviews are very prescriptive.

There are a diverse range of candidates but personally I don't know if we select the best.

No doubt you'll get some lawyers people coming along soon to tell you how vital good A levels are to your future career, but the truth is, most professions do not care about A levels once you have a degree. As PPs have said recruiters are much more interested in your most recent/highest academic qualifications than ones you took 3, 4, 5 years earlier.

One anecdote: DD1 has a friend who got into Durham via a BTech, then got a First at Durham. Do you honestly think anyone now asks about how he got into university?

Also as I have said many times before (and apologies to @RampantIvy and others who have heard me say it before!), most universities do not ask your A level grades on their Masters applications forms, which gives you some idea of how relevant universities themselves think A levels are for students with degrees.