Is it worth going 'all out' for high GCSE or A levels?

[mids2019]

I work in the public sector and recently having been involved in recruitment the applications I see make no mention of A levels and although university attended is stated there are instructions to not bias against any university and only consider degree classification.

I don't know how widespread this practice is but there definitely seems to be a focus on widening participation and to some extent this means widening the range of degrees allowable for various professions (and by default reducing minimum A level requiremnts).

time will tell on the ultimate consequence of this strategy but for school children now is it worth it honest to tell them that a high number of high grade academic qualifications will lead to significant advantage in employment prospwcts?

the educational arena is now complicated with a range of vocational qualifications which public sector employers are now told to have equivalence with more academic subjects.

@thing47
DD didn't put her A level grades on her masters application. She has applied to the same university she did her degree in so they will have an idea of what she would have had to achieve to get her place. They also have access to her transcript.

The point of getting good GCSEs is that they give you more choice in where and what to study for the next stage of your education.

The point of getting good A levels is that they give you more choice in which university to attend and what to study. Some careers will not be available to you at all if you don't do really well at A level - becoming a doctor or dentist, for example.

However, once you have finished your degree, most employers won't be interested in your GCSEs or A levels.

Whilst some employers consider all universities to be equal and only look at the degree classification, others will consider a degree from a Russell Group university, or a university known to be strong in the relevant subject, as being of greater value than a degree of the same classification from another university.

I do wonder about the uni blind application.

I have a first from a non Russell group uni and a 2.2 from Oxford. I studied far harder at Oxford and I was gutted it wasn't a 2.1. It was all based on 4 days of finals. . The first elsewhere was modular and far easier tbh. However the course structure was brilliant and, although far less of the independent research of Oxford, I did learn a lot!

You need the points from GCSEs and A levels to get a place on some degree courses. Eg veterinary. Need 3 As at A level. I think they also ask for grade 7 to 9 in GCSEs. If you're doing something like history no doubt there's a range of courses and grades needed. But for some things there isn't.

Universities are getting harder and harder to get into. The expected A level grades are so much higher in recent years. Even degrees that shouldn’t need to be academic (think nursing) require A and B grades at A level. Just because employers don’t often look at GCSE and A level grades it doesn’t make them pointless. They are all just stepping stones to the next qualification.

Also, just because the public sector aren’t meant to judge people based on which uni they went to, it doesn’t mean the private sector think the same way.

Important to try their best but not work so hard it impacts their physical or mental health. Since I’ve had a degree, I’ve never put my GCSEs or baccalaureate on CV or applications. In fact I barely reference my degree in applying for jobs now I have several years work experience

When I am sifting through CVs I find myself more interested in the A Level subject choices and grades then in the degree. They show me how rounded a candidate’s interests are, whether they lean towards left brain / right brain thinking, etc. Perhaps that is because I am in an industry that benefits in having employees from a wide variety of degree courses. There is no requirement for us to get the best first class honours chemists, for example, as we can. The blinder the CV gets, the more exhausting I find the process to be. I don’t seem to get cover letters either these days. HR seem to confiscate everything!

As someone who has recruited new team members (corporate) for any first job applicants I value work or volunteer experience, whether that is working in a burger restaurant, scout group, supermarket or summer camp. I love seeing when a person has gone back several years to the same summer job or helped out for a group more time than just to get their DoE.

The degree is no good without the ability to apply it. I’ve seen some stellar first class degree on paper academically qualified candidates who in a real life job are embarrassingly incapable compared to the 2:1 with experience. You can have all the great onboarding support in the world but if someone just doesn’t ‘get’ work no amount of support will resolve their gaps. Generalisation I know, however it is my experience and I know others at my level who apply the same criteria.

I would say absolutely push to get as good as possible at gcse and a-level but as a recruiter I’d rather see a 2:1 with a ton of activities than a first with nothing else. In some roles I’ve ended up sifting on gcse results as we had so many straight A*, 2:1 candidates achieving world peace on their forms. GCSEs often were quite a good differentiator. I’ve also recruited in bigger batches re name blind but it is obvious someone is oxbridge if they talk about their blues etc.

It's because everyone and Thier dog is going to uni. They need ysort the chaff from the wheat somehow. And this is the easiest way.

Uni need a fine balance of numbers of students and results. If 70%are dropping out and getting thirds, no-one will want to go there.

Uni isn't the be all and end all

I recruit for my company and we absolutely still look at GCSE and A levels. Probably depends on the industry.

And yes we also consider where Uni degree was taken.

As an employer I was far more interested in attitude than qualifications.

How does a potential employee get through the first sift @Lovetotravel123? Surely, you don't really get to assess their can do attitude until you interview them?

Depends on the job! A lot of my friends in their businesses ask for GCSE and A level results. They also don't always ask outright on the application but will bring it up in conversation so the person has less time to make it up 🤣

Work out what ucas points you need. Go for that! Simples!

Not all universities ask for UCAS points. The "better" ones ask for A level grades.

I’m an employer in the private sector and I take A levels more seriously than degree mark, and I’d worry a lot about someone with low GCSE grades.
Though it’s all made harder by the changes during Covid so it’s hard to compare grades. We set our own assessments too now for that reason.

Why? What on earth do you think exams taken at 14-16 tell you about a 21 or 22-year-old job applicant?

And A level results tell you a small amount about the person starting university but very, very little about the person leaving it 3 or 4 years later.

There is massive inequality in schooling which to a considerable extent is evened out at university where students have access to the same lecturers/tutors, libraries, labs and other resources. They also have a degree of freedom from any issues in the home growing up, during term time at least. By reverting to A level grades as a determinant you are perpetuating the inequality pupils suffer at school.

@thing47 because we are an accounting firm and have found that people who did not do well at maths GCSE or who did not do maths at A level have not been successful at the job.

Well yeah because good GCSEs lay the foundation for good A levels and good A levels get you into the university of your choice.

As you say, the university is stated on applications, and no one is under any illusions that all universities are equal, whatever the guidance is.

Good GCSEs also get you onto vocational courses and apprenticeships and whatever so same applies.

They give value elsewhere though. I was an. A student all the way through. Whilst I've never actually used any of them for any job,I do now run my own successful business and I think having the confidence that A* gave me, allowed me to do that.

Not bright enough to work out how to write A star though without bolding everything

DH went to a fairly rubbish comp. I went to a highly selective private school. I have much much better grades despite him being as bright. DH HATES not being able to say where he was at school on his application as he looks a much weaker candidate without context. And because he’s a teacher they care about all his grades…despite his 2:1 and PhD…

So the answer is it does matter, apart from in some civil service jobs. Most industries and public sector like teaching do care. I've had comments on my high school etc and it def helps, selective grammar.

I would always show my Alevels (double maths plus German) on my CV over my 2.1 RG engineering degree - because they were so much harder, so I feel they show my calibre more.

I mean yeah double maths is pretty impressive so why would you not?!