Eltham College, selective school with A* %39 GCSe results?

[larriss]

Hi all,

We will move to South East London next year Currently my kids are in state school in East London. But we will try to move them to the independent school when we move to SE. I am trying to find out which school we should apply in September and which area we need to move. We have twins in year 1 at the moment. So in September 2024 they will be year 3. . We moved to UK 5 years ago so I am not sure about “single sex schools”? All most all our friends here recommended us single sex school for our girls. I searched online as well, articles, reports also states that girls do better in girls only school especially in secondary stage.
My daughters are doing great in their schools right now, they are well above average in all subjects. When we practice for 7+ at home they also do amazing. I do believe they can even get a offer from all of the schools. But that doesn’t mean they need to be in top academic school but we will pay a lot of money more than 10 years so I would like to make sure that it is worth to go. Also, we need to move before December 2023 so I would like to decide which area we will be moving. In addition, as my twins are small I don’t prefer them to travel by school bus - I am planning to drive so I need to make sure I live close to one of these schools:

I liked JAGS - results, facilities looks great. With school bus girls needs to travel almost a hour (twice). I heard some girls had health issues because of the pressure of school. Is that true?

Allenys - results and facilities are so similar to JAGS but its coed. If it was for me, I think I would choose this school for me:)
Meanwhile I am not sure about the Dulwich area - never visited before. Is it nice place to live with kids?

Eltham College - they say its selective because its starts at year 3 (7+) nevertheless exam results are not good for selective school. A* %39 -
I can not imagine if their entry point was nursery (3+)- but still not sure if we need to consider it. Please let me know if you recommend it. Plus, we are not Christian. Do you its going to be a problem for our girls? Also the bad presses about this school, are they true story?
I visited Eltham/Mottingham area I didn’t like it a lot. Am I wrong?

Colfes - its coed, big school with large green space. But when I visited I didn’t like the Junior side of the school however senior side was better. The disadvantage of this school is students needs to take 11+ exam to move to senior side. Its looks like it is a academic school but results also not so good when we consider that.

Blackheath High - smaller than other schools I think. Its girls only school. Entry point is 3+ and A* GCSE results are 34%. They say its not selective as girls in juniors can move to senior side automatically. But results are so similar with Colfes and Eltham College? - which they say they are more selective in 7+ and 11+?
I liked the Blackheath/Greenwich area. Green space, Greenwich park and Blackheath-Lewisham DLR is so close to city. (Transport is important for us my husband is working the city).

Colfes - its coed, big school with large green space. But when I visited I didn’t like the Junior side of the school however senior side was better. The disadvantage of this school is students needs to take 11+ exam to move to senior side. Its looks like it is a academic school but results also not so good when we consider that.
Colfes school in Lee, also close to the Blackheath.

What I don’t understand is how come Eltham College is more selective school but results are so similar to Colfes or Blackheath? I really want to know if it is worth to move Eltham? Also when I checked the official website of Eltham College and Colfes. Colfes results was better in 2022 but in league tables Eltham College always above from Colfes. Do you know the reason?

I will be so pleased if you let me know WWYD.

Thank you so much.

Apparently like a lot of parents in the private schools do have option to go to grammar but they not, and many of them are not multimillionaires, I think it is how their family to measure utilities on education against money, some focus are result driven and some focus more on the journey.

Each to their own, and it is subjective if it is 'worth it'.

I don't think being at a private school like Eltham or Colfes will hold back a bright child who could have got into a selective grammar, at any rate.

And they do get better results than the normal selective grammars (st Olaves and the like aside).

It is subjective, of course, but what swung it for me was talking to quite a lot of graduates out of university and in training about their schooling. Every single privately schooled one stated they wished their parents had saved the money for them and how useful it would be for them to have now. That is what swung it for me. Maybe these graduates, if they end up earning loads by the time they are mid forty, might feel differently. It is very difficult for them these days with high housing costs, student debt, huge childcare costs, if they even end up having children. So we can’t just judge from our own perspective. And that is the difficulty. Most of us want what is best for our 4, 11, 16 year olds and above all, want them to be happy.

If someone said to me now whether I would like 300k or the private schooling I had, I would take the money for my own children.

@Intergalacticcatharsis
That's good you are confident in your decision. Those students also don't know what it would have been like to not had the education they did, so as much as they'd find it useful to have the 300k now (who wouldn't), who knows how they'd feel / where they'd be if they'd been to a state school.

“who knows how they'd feel / where they'd be if they'd been to a state school”.

A lot of their uni friends went to state school and have ended up in the same uni/place and that is exactly why they are questioning it. Going to private school is no longer a badge of honour to talk about at Freshers week. It is something some of them actually hide and are embarrassed about. So to then hear that their parents spent all this money etc, it can be an issue for them. And it is something we parents do need to think about because we are the ones choosing this path for them. They are often too young to choose themselves. Even at 10-11 most are too young to understand the complex implications.

Same way would some kids feel less embarrassed about that their parents are paying for their university and housing expenses? Are their parents paving the way for them after they becoming independent adults?

@BNP - most kids take the free uni loan. It makes more sense to do that and then pay it straight back once you have finished. The pot of money can sit and grow in their ISAs in the mean time. If your parents have money they have to help with living costs anyway.

How come students are more comfortable with their parents paying off their university debt when they are grown up, rather than their parents paying for their private education when they are young?

They should all feel grateful. Some students might feel more independent or responsible when they are adults, and therefore less willing to accept their parents’ help. Others might feel more entitled or dependent, and therefore more comfortable with their parents’ assistance.

Essentially, some parents care more about the monetary value of the outcome than the personal growth of the process. I don’t think it’s simple to find the optimal balance or make a universal rule like that.

@BNP this is anecdote from my much much younger colleagues, some still in training, but it seems it is “not cool to go to private school”. Some said they left off the name of their schools when applying for jobs too, where that was optional information. I have no idea who advised them to do that.

I also don’t think it is simple to discuss personal growth in a private vs state school environment. Far from it.

Students put the secondary school name in the CV? Is that a thing? Is it any cooler to put a Grammar school name on it?

Graduate recruitment, especially in competitive jobs, track diversity statistics. The forms to fill in are long and detailed but a lot is stated as “optional”. Grammar is still state sector so maybe that is less of a problem. Perhaps “prefer not to say” is the new trend.

Diversity statistics is for tracking purposes same as gender, age and ethnicity, the data is not even legal to be used by application decisions.

More and more competitive jobs adopt blind application process.

Umm ok yeh... They are talking to the ones who made it to uni and on that course, what about the ones that didn't!?

You are more likely to go to uni and on your preferred course / uni having been to private school. That doesn't mean lots of kids don't do it from state, of course, but you are more likely to from private.

Strange to ask graduates whether they wish they had £300k in cash or the independent education they’ve already received? Of course they’d say the cash! It’s a total non question as they have no idea what the other educational experience would have been?!?

It is not a non question and it is not how the conversations went.

Current graduates in training have far more costs and hurdles than we did: significant US style uni debt, much higher rental/housing costs, and that, in combination with the exponential increase in private school fees in the last 20 years means that the equation is now different. Especially when there is an acceptable state alternative available to them because their parents are perfectly educated and could understand how to navigate the state school system. And could have saved for their uni education US style. Some parents just have not yet understood how much has changed. You also need to consider that getting on highly competitive uni courses is even harder for private school kids AND graduate recruitment as well. The graduates have faced and seen all of this and our questioning their parents ‘ decision.

Of course, many youngsters question their parents, that is perfectly normal. However, we do need to listen to the younger generation.

For example, some doors close firmly if you have been to private school. Certain branch of politician springs to mind. For many this may not be a concern, but for young people it can be troubling. Especially if it is something they had no say in anyway.

It is also important for the parent to be aware that the selective grammar schools that the PP suggested as a acceptable state option face the same level of scrutiny for competitive courses in the university application as private schools.

This has no impact on graduate recruitments.

This is so call the "social engineering parent" ?

Things are changing. If you don’t have daily access to young people you may not know. Go hang out on Student forums if you don’t know any students/trainees/those working in graduate recruitment.

The newest trend in London is degree apprenticeships in top banks. Many high achievers are rethinking the whole value of uni given the cost.

As someone who regularly interviews hundreds of graduate students in London’s top frm, I can tell you that…

There is no top firm, there are competitors and everyone’s policies differ slightly.
For example, there are categories of state, state selective, private, overseas education in some.

I am not going to get into the legal debate of positive discrimination vs positive action, but anyone interested can look it up. It is very topical.

Just remember they get the good results because they select the brightest kids...

@Intergalacticcatharsis
'getting on highly competitive uni courses is even harder for private school kids'

This isn't true. There are contextualised offers, but these only apply to the bottom comp schools, not grammars, or even decent comps. Grammar school children will face the same level of scrutiny as private school ones.

'The newest trend in London is degree apprenticeships in top banks. Many high achievers are rethinking the whole value of uni given the cost.'

These are also competitive, and something you can still access after having been to private school. I know Colfes for instance are promoting them as an uni alternative now. You don't have to have gone to a state school to do an apprenticeship.

There is also evidence that private school education leads to higher earnings on average.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news/2019/nov/private-school-pupils-earn-more-state-school-pupils-age-25-ioe-research-reveals