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Original poster

Our Prep school feels absolutely brutal right now. Are others any different?

122 replies

Theguiltyfeminist · 09/12/2022 16:29

DD is a good kid. She gets her head down and works really hard and is nice to the other children. Other parents have said to me how pleased they are that their kids are friends with her. She joins in with lessons, puts her hand up and to the best of my knowledge, causes no trouble.

She has moved up to Y4 of a large, well known prep. They talk the talk about child mental health and finding every child’s niche but the truth is the kids who are not academic or sporting or dramatic stars, or drowning at the bottom end, are absolutely and completely invisible. Her form teacher knows almost nothing about her - parents evening was excruciating. I had to have a meeting with her Head of Year recently, and raised this, and he didn’t seem to think this was a problem.

When I say “academic stars”, I mean the kids whose CAT scores are 138+. It’s not technically a selective school but DD’s scores are c130 and her Head of Year is very openly telling me that she’s just average and that they don’t consider her to be a “clever kid”. When I say “musical stars”, I mean the kids who doing Grade 8 in Y4. She plays two instruments to a high level but school doesn’t consider that to be particularly musical. They assess the kids every few weeks and read out the highest and lowest scores for the tests in front of the class. I don’t think they name the person with the lowest score, but obviously it makes that child feel terrible and they then have to hide it in front of their friends. It all just feels so harsh for 8 year olds. This hasn’t happened to DD yet but it may do one day.

I feel that her self esteem is taking a bit of a battering at the moment - it’s tough work in really hard and nobody ever noticing. Neither DH nor I were educated in the independent sector and so perhaps it’s considered to be perfectly normal and our expectations are unreasonable? Are all prep schools like this? She has lovely friends and loves the sport and music and drama - I don’t want to suggest to her that we move her if actually this is just the way it is across the whole sector?

OP posts:
Lily7050 · 10/12/2022 11:02

Has the child been in another prep till Y4?
If she joined "a large, well known prep" at Y4 spending previous years in another school, maybe try to move her back to her old school?
Does this "a large, well known prep" has a PTA?

somuchtolearnabout · 10/12/2022 11:14

This is absolutely not the norm for all prep school. DS goes to the same prep I went to 30+ years ago. It was tiny when I went, I had 9 in my class. It's bigger now of course, with much better facilities and 22 to a class. But it still manages to keep the nurturing feel that we really wanted. When we looked around, the headteacher knew the name of every child he passed in the hallway. I've no doubt he was doing this for our benefit, but it worked. Every class we looked around, the children were addressed by name by each teacher. And when looking through maths / English books to be given an idea of the different academic ability of the children, the head knew a lot about every child and their own abilities, despite never even teaching them. And he made a point of discussing what their strengths were, even if they were slightly "less capable" in some subjects. DS is thriving there and it lives up to expectations in that respect. It's not for everyone, I have friends who sent their children to the large selective prep school opposite as they really value the emphasis on academia - different strokes for different folks.

OP if the school isn't working for DD, move her. She's very young, young enough to make a new group of friends. It sounds like she's a very kind, friendly, confident girl, she won't have any difficulty making new friends at a school that suits her better.

LondonGirl83 · 10/12/2022 11:16

@gogohmm I agree with you on grade 8 in year 4. It’s not impossible but would be very rare and couldn’t at any school be seen as the standard to be considered musical.

Also, I struggle to understand how a non-selective prep could say 130 would be average- it’s top 2 percent of the ability profile. If you look at St Paul’s ISC report from a few years ago only half their pupils have a score of 128 or higher and they are possibly the most selective boys school in the UK!

It doesn’t sound like a very good school at all though and all independent schools are not like this.

ButterflyBiscuit · 10/12/2022 11:22

This sounds truly awful. Why are you paying for this??

Our state primary isn't in a super leafy/wealthy area but it is nurturing and lovely. My girls play instruments and are invited to play in assembly, they're in the choir and taken on lots of visits to sing, all the kids are encouraged and celebrated even if it's just an "improvement " in low spelling scores.

We dont have the facilities for amazing sport or drama but we've outsources sport and playing at regional level so completely doable. If you are saving funds by not going private you can. Go tk the theatre more etc

One of mine is at a grammar now so back into that environment of everyone being clever but I'm so glad at primary it wasnt about that. And even at grammar theirs seems not to put the pressure on!

ButterflyBiscuit · 10/12/2022 11:32

I've also loved parents evenings. We sit outside the classroom so sometimes you can see before/after go in. Our teachers on the whole have enthused about every child. Not just the stars. It's their job to know what their strengths are and to share that. We usually get a comment about a recent piece of work or something that happened.

It's making me appreciate the school even more now. And it's nothing to look at from the outside. Mixed area etc but far better environment than this particular private school!

Falafe · 10/12/2022 19:09

I think this sounds too much for such a young child. Is there a less pressured school nearby? they might be happier in a local primary with local friends and an ordinary childhood rather than all this stress and expectation and pursuit of excellence.

“Do not ask your children
to strive for extraordinary lives.
Such striving may seem admirable,
but it is the way of foolishness.
Help them instead to find the wonder
and the marvel of an ordinary life.
Show them the joy of tasting
tomatoes, apples and pears.
Show them how to cry
when pets and people die.
Show them the infinite pleasure
in the touch of a hand.
And make the ordinary come alive for them.
The extraordinary will take care of itself.”

Managinggenzoclock · 10/12/2022 22:12

WombatChocolate · 10/12/2022 09:33

I’m not justifying terrible schools or treating children poorly, but I also think that sometimes when parents choose schools they don’t think through their choices.

Especially when parents want highly selective schools at any age, they have to realise that there will be academic pressures. This isn’t to say that there should be undue pressure, but quite what children and parents view as undue pressure does vary. Some children are at schools where the academic level just doesn’t suit them…..and that can be soul destroying. If you would be average or top achieving in another school, but find yourself at the bottom all the way through inna highly selective school, and despite trying hard, are always struggling, it won’t be a nice experience. I don’t think this is what the OP is describing, but actually many parents find they have put their kids into this kind of situation. Because they want the highly academic, the prestige and the results, they push their children in who aren’t really suited. And then when their children struggle, it’s all the schools fault. I think this is especially the case where children might be in a linked-Prep and get an easier ride into the senior school as a result.

I also think that parents should be prepared to spot when a school isn’t right for their child and move them. Lots don’t though. If it’s the school of choice in the area, it feels like a humiliation and failure to take them away from the school that parents mostly want and to put them in a school seen as ‘lesser’. But if they thrive somewhere else, then of course it’s the right thing. The trouble is, it’s hard for parents to know. They hope that struggling ir being miserable is a blip, or if the atmosphere feels harsh ir uncaring it’s just one teacher. Sometimes it is a whole school issue, and sometimes it’s just that the child isn’t really suited to the school and even if people are kind and nurturing, that child will always struggle in that cohort. But parents don’t like to recognise the latter. When they eventually move their child, it’s often on openly bad terms with the school or unspoken bad terms. The sense is that the school failed the child. It’s hard to think of it as having been a poor choice…but sometimes that’s the reality. In senior schools, there are often children whose Prep told them, that senior school wasn’t the best choice for their child. But parents ignited the advice, decided ‘aspiration’ was important and the Prep wasn’t aspirational enough for their child. And then later, after having managed to secure a place, funnily enough things don’t always work out so well. But then it becomes the fault if the senior school and rarely do parents consider that perhaps they didn’t make a good choice.

I’m not saying this is always the case. I’m not saying none schools ever do a bad job or create an unpleasant atmosphere or apply excessive pressure. Those things happen. But also, there are other reasons too why children don’t thrive in schools, and people need to consider their own choices as parents too, and also quite simply to be honest and real about their children’s strengths and personality types and know all schools aren’t suited to all children.

The op specifically chose a non selective school that said it was nurturing over the selective school.

Fudgeball123 · 11/12/2022 08:29

I'm guessing this prep school is in London and hence non selective is still pushy.
We are in the sticks and our school is nothing like this. It's very small and the HT knows all the parents and children.
We don't get any CAT scores and some of the teachers won't tell you how your child performed compared to average in the class so it's certainly not for the tiger parent.
We do have grade 8 musicians but nearer year 8 than year 4...

Legoninjago1 · 11/12/2022 09:52

No that's not great OP. I have two boys at a well known prep, which is non selective but has more than its fair share of superstars across the board. The teachers make every child feel valued. It's just in the DNA of the school. I'd definitely move her if she's starting to lose confidence.

TizerorFizz · 11/12/2022 16:15

My DD went to a famously non selective prep
but lots of the DDs were very clever! Non selective doesn’t mean not full of bright DC. Parents chose it because it’s the best.

They will be choosing their scholarship steam soon. I don’t believe the cats scores! Or grade 8 at 8. Most won’t achieve this. However all these schools have the odd genius! DDs prep had one. However DD enjoyed what she could do and never felt left out. However you do have to accept a hierarchy of the scholarship group. If you don’t want this, it’s not the school to choose. They do stand and fall by destinations. So if it’s not right for DD, move on. State schools are full around me so swapping isn’t easy, unless you don’t mind the poor ones.

Bumpsadaisie · 11/12/2022 16:30

Urgh it just sounds so unpleasant - that as a parent of a Y4 child you even KNOW what her CAT score is is a new one on me.

The only time I came to know of my children's CAT scores was at the start of y7 when their secondary runs those tests to see where the new children are at.

My DD is very bright, we have been told she is headed for all 9s at GCSE (let's see if that transpires, but still).

Her average CAT score in y7 was 132.

She seems to be doing very well without needing to be under an absurd amount of pressure.

As a musician myself, yes of course you can do grade 8 at a young age. I was 13 when I did mine which I always thought was quite young - thought your Y4 grade 8'ers are another thing altogether!

But really being a musician takes TIME to develop, to have the maturity to be able to feel something and to express it. Yes you can tick the box on the exam, but so what? Do you want to have the exam certificate, or do you want to play the piano in a way that moves people and expresses something.

I often still play the pieces I did for grade 8 at age 13 and boy I play them so much better now.

Why is it necessary for your very able DD to be in a school like this?

MrPickles73 · 12/12/2022 09:42

Our friend's state primary in North London some of the kids are reading Harry Potter in reception and playing musical instruments from the age of 5... but this requires a non working parent so you basically sacrifice a salary of £100k+ per year to provide this service for your child and it doesn't guarantee happiness..

LondonGirl83 · 12/12/2022 14:43

You don't need a non-working parent for a child to play a musical instrument and read Harry Potter.

Being able to read Harry Potter at that age is about very advanced cognitive ability supported by normal parental support like reading every night, discussing vocabulary, plots etc for comprehension. Its mostly natural ability not huge parental effort.

Learning an instrument at that age does require parental support but 15 minutes a day helping with practice is enough before or after school.

FunctionalSkills · 12/12/2022 15:45

Why are you sacrificing a 100k plus salary? Many sahm weren't on high incomes initially but then have time to ferry round/help with homework etc.

FunctionalSkills · 12/12/2022 15:47

And anyway reading with a child can be done alongside work.

Or if you have 100k a year salary the nanny can do it..

Falafe · 12/12/2022 17:46

@MrPickles73 Sorry I had to laugh at your post. So only SAHM can get children to an advanced reading stage and learning an instrument. We'd better all give up then.
Except - my three are at state schools, read voraciously, play instruments, play club and county sport, take LAMDA exams and have lovely social lives. And my DH and I both work bloody hard.

Falafe · 12/12/2022 17:49

@MrPickles73 And also, in case you hadn't notice, nothing you can do as a parent can guarantee happiness for your children, educationally or otherwise. If there was a magic formula we would all be ascribing to it.
I went to one of the top boarding schools with every opportunity you could ever imagine and was utterly miserable. My goddaughter has had a similar experience forty years later.

Fudgeball123 · 12/12/2022 18:02

falafe I'm just sharing what seems to be the tactic at our friends' state primary.. lots of stay at home tiger mums frantically doing extra work before school and enrichment after school...
My kids also do lamda, enjoy reading, play instruments and in county sports but were not doing so in reception...

CruCru · 12/12/2022 19:51

Honestly? You should be pleased with the school that your child goes to (whether state or private). It doesn't sound as though you are. No school is going to do everything exactly the way that you might wish but there is a lot here that you don't like.

Re CAT scores - the highest score anyone can get is 141 so 138 is exceptional and 130 is very high achieving indeed. Your daughter sounds terrific.

What do you want to do? I don't recognise the culture that you describe but it may be that it is more common that I realise. Would you like to move her?

CruCru · 12/12/2022 19:53

Sorry, I've just reread that. I would not be pleased with that school (thought I would mention that).

LondonGirl83 · 12/12/2022 20:03

@Fudgeball123 but doing it early is mostly about cognitive ability rather than parenting. You can't parent a child into being a free reader at 4/5. Same with music-- it requires a modest amount of support but its mostly down to the child's interest and aptitude.

Cleopatra67 · 12/12/2022 20:33

Teacher in large independent academic secondary school here and also,parent of three who went to Indy prep. Absolutely move her now. A lot of damage can be done in the next two years and you need to send her somewhere more nurturing and less competitive. She sounds love and very talented so I’m sure she’ll thrive.

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