Our Prep school feels absolutely brutal right now. Are others any different?

[Theguiltyfeminist]

DD is a good kid. She gets her head down and works really hard and is nice to the other children. Other parents have said to me how pleased they are that their kids are friends with her. She joins in with lessons, puts her hand up and to the best of my knowledge, causes no trouble.

She has moved up to Y4 of a large, well known prep. They talk the talk about child mental health and finding every child’s niche but the truth is the kids who are not academic or sporting or dramatic stars, or drowning at the bottom end, are absolutely and completely invisible. Her form teacher knows almost nothing about her - parents evening was excruciating. I had to have a meeting with her Head of Year recently, and raised this, and he didn’t seem to think this was a problem.

When I say “academic stars”, I mean the kids whose CAT scores are 138+. It’s not technically a selective school but DD’s scores are c130 and her Head of Year is very openly telling me that she’s just average and that they don’t consider her to be a “clever kid”. When I say “musical stars”, I mean the kids who doing Grade 8 in Y4. She plays two instruments to a high level but school doesn’t consider that to be particularly musical. They assess the kids every few weeks and read out the highest and lowest scores for the tests in front of the class. I don’t think they name the person with the lowest score, but obviously it makes that child feel terrible and they then have to hide it in front of their friends. It all just feels so harsh for 8 year olds. This hasn’t happened to DD yet but it may do one day.

I feel that her self esteem is taking a bit of a battering at the moment - it’s tough work in really hard and nobody ever noticing. Neither DH nor I were educated in the independent sector and so perhaps it’s considered to be perfectly normal and our expectations are unreasonable? Are all prep schools like this? She has lovely friends and loves the sport and music and drama - I don’t want to suggest to her that we move her if actually this is just the way it is across the whole sector?

I think middle of the road dc are pretty much invisible across the board. I suspect though your daughter with her drama, sport and two instruments would very much be noticeable in a decent state primary. Is there any reason why you went for private?

They do (or did in my day) that thing of reading everyone’s results out at eton. Those who are the lowest (regardless of how actually good / bad the marks are) are designated ATF in front of everyone- absolute total failure. It’s horribly cruel.
the laser focus on the very top kids in academics and sport was the same at the prep my kids went to and of course it’s very much self perpetuating. Mine didn’t get a look in until eg one was sent as a sub on a sports team and won a national title as a sub. The other ended up getting the highest score on leaving at which point there was a lot of retrospective “oh we always knew” but it was unpleasant. If yours are young enough to move and there’s an alternative, do it now.

Would I feel differently if she were a star? I probably wouldn’t be aware of any of this, to consider it either way - I would just think that every kid was known and appreciated the way mine was.

As to whether I am put out that she isn’t being appreciated… hell, yes, but not in the way that you think. I am cross that she works so, so hard and it never gets noticed. I am fed up with the fact that she has other really important parts of who she is - she’s really kind to her friends and thoughtful and funny and gentle - which are not considered to be noteworthy or important (especially when at least one of the better known kids is also busy spending his breaktimes slamming the other kids’ fingers in desks etc).

The question “are you put out that she’s not given the recognition you think she should be?” is actually a bit sad. It presupposes that there are some kids who don’t deserve recognition or appreciation. Surely the point is that all the kids should be known and appreciated for who they are, even if they can’t catch a ball for toffee and are completely tone deaf and are in the bottom maths set. “Not being a star” doesn’t make you less of a person.

I was a big fish in a very small pond and I actually don’t want that for her - it did nothing for my mental health in later life - but this seems to be the far opposite extreme. Surely to God it must be possible to have a sensible middle ground..?

I wonder if some of this is your perception more than reality OP?

Obviously I don’t know as I don’t know the school, your child or the situation, but sometimes parents are easily disappointed or have unrealistic expectations of what is possible. Sometimes,in a very selective school, being bright but not the brightest can be hard for parents or children. Very selective schools can be very alpha and competitive and that doesn’t suit everyone. Sometimes there can be a feeling that a child isn’t known, when in actual fact they are. Sometimes the reality is that certain personality types get noticed most or parents feel their child isn’t noticed and a different personality is. In honesty, parents who are highly driven can be easily subject to jealousy about other children and their achievements. As 11+ season approaches, there can be a real sense of schools nor providing enough or rivalry between families, even if mostly unspoken.

So, I wonder if at least some of what Op feels is a perception thing and that most other parents wouldn’t describe what she does.

A child scoring 130 in CAT tests is certainly bright and not average. I’d be really surprise for the school suggested they were not bright or limited the options available to them as next schools. Did they really do that? Yes, there might be the odd exceptional child, but being G8 in music is very very unusual at this age and even in very selective Preps, there will be a range of abilities and 130 always puts kids in the upper cohorts. Is it that Op feels she wants school to fawn over her child a bit more? I honestly don’t know.

Perhaps it is a crap school. However it sounds like the type people are queuing to get into. Is that the case? Sometimes people are queuing for bad things, but sometimes there is lots that is good but there are always some people who aren’t pleased. Impossible to know to be honest.

My dd is at a small prep school and this is absolutely not our experience. The children all seem very average!!

Reading that makes me glad I havnt got money

They haven’t said anything about it limiting future schools - we haven’t had that conversation with them yet. They have explicitly told me twice in the last two days that she is on the high side of average, but none the less fundamentally average, academically. The words they used were “…because we have lots of children at this school getting 138-141 in the CAT tests”. And that’s ok - I am most proud of how hard she works - but it doesn’t mean that the other kids don’t deserve to have the teachers know their names at parents evening, y’know…

Why? Does not having money mean you can't say anything helpful and constructive?

Wombat Chocolate, the thing is that we deliberately didn’t go for the selective, very academic local prep - this one markets itself as not being selective and having a much wider intake. I really didn’t want a hothouse for her. If I were a really pushy academic parent then I would have take a different path from the off. I am just a bit flummoxed as to how we ended up here, to
be honest.

What do you mean? What exactly bothered you at the parents evening? I am sure the form teacher knew her name. What were you expecting that you didn't get from the class teacher? Is your child happy at the school? Is this about your child being unhappy or you being unhappy?

You know, I've got one kid in private and one in state and I'm beginning to think private schools are a law unto themselves. I'd move her to state, spend the extra money on holidays/tuition (or fun extra curricular) and a generous donation to school funds. That's what I'm thinking of doing next year.

Re: parents evening, he is also her subject teacher for a number of subjects but just couldn’t tell me anything about how she was doing. Just got very flustered when I sat down and said her name and just said that, er, everything was fine and couldn’t say any more than that, even when we asked.

Another parent in DD’s class said the same to me about her son. Apparently when the teacher spoke to her, he literally did it while looking pointedly at his watch, so perhaps I should be grateful!

My DC2 was called the wrong name by a teacher at parent's evening. This was at an independent senior school. Having taught her for several years he still would regularly get her first name wrong in class and then resorted to calling her Miss MyGrandmaLizzie.

Sadly, some prep schools (although not all) are like this. There is one near me which is an all-girls prep which seemingly gets good outcomes for the children (in terms of secondary schools) but I know of at least five parents who have removed their daughters because of how their confidence was being demolished.

Is she happy there? Is it you that's bothered about her not being a star or her?

It's not normal. My DC are in private schools (one highly academically selective) and they are nothing like this. Even those schools are more pressured than when I was a kid, and I'm not sure it's worth it! I couldn't stick what you're descriving.
It's not hard to let academic stars get on with it. The quality of a school shows in what they do for the ones that need a bit of help. Ignoring them suggests they aren't very good at teaching.
If she's happy and doesn't care maybe it's ok to stick there for primary but that slightly depends how awful they will be in year 5 and 6 with 11+ - from this I would guess very?

I visit many schools in my professional role, including independent prep schools. Some are inclusive, kind places. Others ‘brutal’, as you describe. I see too many kids who leave this type of education with their mental well-being shot to bits and I’d never consider one for my own children, however book smart they might be. Parents get sucked into the marketing and status, and too often turn a blind eye to their child’s needs.

My advice would be, find a more inclusive prep school or a friendly local primary school, where you daughter can learn about different people, in different ways. Your daughter only gets one shot at childhood, let it build her into a happy, well rounded person. Run for the hills, and don’t look back!

grade 8 at year 4 in primary school. That’s simply not true or accurate or even possible. Perhaps for a very small handful of children in the whole country! Ridiculous.

we always sent our children to lovely local
village primary and then off to selective public schools. Much better to round the child out in the younger years with lots of local mates in the area.

this is a weird post.

Nope not all private schools are like this. She is not thriving there . Take her out

Not sure grade 8 in year 4 is even possible. My dd was precocious in music and "only" reached grade 8 in year 6, she was the youngest in the county orchestra (she's autistic, music is her thing, I'd swop every distinction grade for an easier life for her and good mental health!)

The school sounds terrible, I would look at state schools if that's representative of private

THIS

Your poor dd. Just send her to a good primary state school. She will thrive. This ridiculous ranking that prep schools do is inhumane. My daughter is at the local primary and has just come home with a Star of the Week certificate for kindness to others. That’s what I want to see. (She is also doing really well academically, btw).

Normal historically? Yes, at many independents. Normal now? I hope not.

These types of teachers, who show kids up and compare and put everyone down, get institutionalised into being this way, iyswim.

They join a long line of teachers who have been this way for decades. They are convinced of the grandeur and the history and the ACHIEVEMENT (said in a very pompous voice). And they feel they are doing a good thing by upholding and protecting it.

That’s why you’ll find so many of the same ilk in the school. The teachers who join, but don’t like the culture, leave to teach in nicer schools because they realise they aren’t going to change it. Those that stay have been converted to this old fashioned way of thinking.

Do you find this type of teacher in all schools? Yes. But you will find at some schools the whole building (bar a few) will be teaming with these “educators”.

These types of schools only like the golden pupils. If you’re one of them, we’ll, you’re golden. If you’re LUCKY, you’re average - then you’re simply overlooked. If you’re one of the “stupid” ones, then you're actively reminded of your failings day in day out until the moment you leave the school. (And then you’ve got a lifetime of that trauma to sort out).

maybe explore other schools to see what their methods of encouragement are. Also keep a very keen eye out for artwork displays/awards around the schools when visiting. Do one or two names keep popping up? Well wonder is this kid miraculously perfect at art, English, maths, sports, and science OR are they a golden child? It’s very telling.

Or call your current school out and say you think it’s gross they’re reading the low scores out in class. Makes me sick reading that. Imagine being the child who knows that that’s your shitty score but has to sit there hoping no one will figure out it’s you. Silently shaming someone is no better than publicly shaming someone. It’s institutionalised bullying actually.

I've spent my entire career teaching in selective independent schools and have never come across that. It's the schoo that's the issue.

Yeah, not a great school. My kids all went to the same small prep, very different personalities and abilities, even the staff who didn't teach them directly, knew them.
Try looking at the 'value added' scores. This is based on where a child starts and where they finish rather than just the flat top grades, it means a school is invested in helping the individual get the best for themselves and therefore the 'lower' end also get attention and input rather than being ignored.