Private school fees

[studentandparent]

Labour will scrap charitable status on private school fees when next in Government. Anyone got any idea how much this will increase fees?

I do not understand why some people look forward to Labour making private schools less affordable.
What exactly do they to achieve?
I think they are more like foxes that see grapes but cannot reach them.

There will be increase of home education and tutoring till 11+.
Ex-private school then home educated tutored children will get better 11+ results and take places in good secondary schools.

The provision of education is a core charitable purpose in English law. That is why Universities and many state schools also have charitable status.

How would the state system afford to take over the private schools and the facilities.

Many have pools and extensive sports facilities that cost a lot to maintain. Not to mention the fact that they would need to fund the actual teaching of the kids.

In my town alone there are 2 private senior schools. In year 8 there are approx 220 pupils across both schools.
.Year 8 is full in the state schools.

Let's assume that 150 of the children in year 8 have to leave their private school.

There aren't 150 places in the state system. Its approx 5 classes. How will that be funded?

I don't think VAT on the remaining 70 kids left in the private system would cover it.

Agree. My kids go to state school. I was all for scrapping private school charitable status until someone pointed exactly this out to me.

Because it means they can't operate for profit.

Are people ok with churches and universities having charitable status? Because it seems only private schools get moaned about.

What would happen if all the landlords decided to sell , where would the tenants go , totally deluded

In my son's class of 18 children, at least 5 are only children and likely to stay that way.

Do you base your entire opinion on your one experience?

20% if all schools pass on in full. I suspect there will end up being a compromise. I personally don't have an issue with the education element being zero rated but boarding school fees should not be zero rated as they are a luxury for the very rich

The definition of charity is giving to those in need. By definition the recipients of a private education are not in any sense “in need”. Laws can be changed and should be in this case.

What about all the scholarships these schools give out

I would assume 20%

I assume it will go up to cover the VAT. It will also create a further divide between those who can afford it and those who can't. Many struggle and sacrifice to afford fees - smaller houses, older cars, skipping holidays. Obviously aware that many make these sacrifices and much more and can't afford the bare basics. I actually think that people who pay for something by choice that the state would otherwise be paying for, should get tax relief on that amount - an unpopular view, I know, but they are doing the state a favour. I see this as stopping a lot of people that make difficult lifestyle choices, from being able to attend private schools anymore, so levelling down and increasing the gap between what's affordable and what isn't.

The school my kids go to (state) has dropped swimming lessons as coach fare is too expensive now. Play equipment has been taken down (fundraising for more), requests come home for soap and tissues, books, glue. Recently it was to get some toilets into a better state of repair. Punishing private schools for the lack of funding in state schools is putting the blame where it doesn't belong. Billions were spaffed up the wall in covid fraud, lack of insurance, contracts for dodgy PPE, the cost of Brexit and a whole year of arse covering. Not to mention the recent shit show. If schools were in a less dire state, there are those who would gladly opt out of private school and have a better quality of life in other areas. Taking that choice away before funding puts more pressure on state.

An Australian friend of mine who lives here now, refers to education here as three options, all of which may require a level of sacrifice unless you're v rich - a) private b) move near a good school and hope it's not a high sibling year - accept that it may not be in an area you want to live in c) local school - may be lucky or may partially sacrifice level of education.

Exactly. There is a state secondary in a city near me, which is a series of portacabins and hardly any land.

We switched teen dd to private just over a year ago as she was struggling to cope. Her school has a lot of well off parents with far more money than us… I didn’t realise this at the time, dd chose the school. Another friend is going to a different private school and the head there said a fair few parents were making huge sacrifices to send their dcs to the school. Those parents would definitely struggle. We otoh will be pissed off and dig deeper into savings.

I agree with the posters saying it’s pathetic private school parents would have to pay more. We are literally saving the local authority circa 6k a year.

I'd happily take up a place in my now LA state senior school.

At the time of application we were living in a neighbouring city where the provision was awful.

I'm now living at an address where I would be very happy to swap my children into both the local state school and 6th form.

Obviously this would take away two places for outlying applicants. Who can't afford private education.

Hopefully Kwasi and Liz are right and I'll spend the 40k elsewhere and we'll get trickle down economics

Lol

You won't be cheering when it happens though....Currently per kid, average £15k fees a year. Add in 20% tax and it will be an additional £3k in VAT...

What percentage now won't be able to afford school fees? From what I can see probably about 20 % are on the edge of affordability (they can afford it but with sacrifices, so an additional 20% becomes unaffordable.

Those kids get pulled out of school.

Some private schools then close, particularly in more rural areas as they can't run with 20% fewer pupils. Lets say another 15%.

So the Government gains 600,000 - 20% - 15% * about £3k = £1.08bn

But they then have to educate the 240,000 that come into state education at around £7000 per pupil = £1.68bn

OH...

Plus they have to build extra classrooms, extra schools....the kids need educating now and there are no spaces.

Now these figures may be under or over estimates. Even if its half, it still doesn't make sense due to the extra buildings required.

If its more than my estimate then they are into costing the taxpayer hundreds of millions!

As a policy it just doesn't add up.

The tldr;

It will cost more to educate those leaving private education for state as it has now become unaffordable than you will gain in VAT.

Happy to go through the maths!

I live in london. My kids are definitely not going to private school, I dont want all wealthier families putting their kids in state and moving closer to the senior school I want my DC to get into!

Our historic public schools will also be filled with children from overseas, i.e Middle Eastern princes, Kids from corrupt countries etc who are using dirty money to attend say Eton or Charterhouse.

Is that what we really want?

I agree with this.

It’s all hypothetical. Just like Labour being in power.

(And SW london has hardly any space to build new senior schools even if they are properly funded)

My DS goes to an independent school, it’s funded by the LA and so are about 70% of the students there.

If fees increase then LAs will need to spend more from their SEN budgets which many already can’t afford.

The stats show that virtually everyone who sends their kids to private school are in the top percentage of income groups. If you do not value your kids education enough to cut some of your discretionary spend to pay increased fees, then that is your choice.