Private school fees

[studentandparent]

Labour will scrap charitable status on private school fees when next in Government. Anyone got any idea how much this will increase fees?

Is anyone from Finland on here? I understand they were successful in abolishing private schools and perform very well both on pisa and for educational equality.

Where I live there are far more children than there are state school places. Kids are being bussed to sink schools in other boroughs. I’m not embarrassed to say I think it’s not good enough for my kids or anyone else’s kids. But enjoy your sneering.

Well quite. All the ‘We got Brexit done’ rubbish from the Tories ignores the difficulties in Northern Ireland, trade with the EU etc that simply isn’t working.

And the £5000 extra in tax per year per pupil, doesn't pay for a single secondary school child, per year.

There is a number of SEN pupils in independent specialist charity schools, which cost sometimes near £100,000 per year, so would be another £20,000 out of a high needs budget that is under massive pressure and over spent.

@Rollingdownland same here, very vocal socialists.

Oh boo hoo! Why should they even get charitable status?

In fact the DC at private schools would otherwise be educated at the tax payers’ expense. i.e. Private schools save the tax payer a hell of a lot of money.

Also, if 90% of state schools are going to run out of money, how would it help to close down private schools / make them unaffordable and cause there to be more pupils needing state school places?

And dare I say it, but education is (and IMO should be) a charitable purpose in its own right. Having a well educated population helps society as a whole.

This again (it was debated until the 1,000 post limit a few weeks ago). No, you are not subsidising my kids' private education, I'm paying for state school places I'm not using.

As for the charitable status, a third of pupils at our school are on bursaries so it won't make a massive difference to the finances of our school but it certainly will for the bursary kids who are no longer funded.

There's some great state schools (I went to one) but our local one is so highly sought after that the catchment area for distance places has shrunk to a few hundred metres. Suffice to say property prices are extremely high.

Add in a few thousand private school kids, prices will be even higher and most of the parents have deeper pockets so it won't be their kids that pay the price of not getting in. Plus the cost of acquiring land and building extra schools because there aren't any free places at our local state schools. I think it would cost the government way more than it saves but perhaps the political point scoring will outweigh that?

It's so much more complicated than just saying 'oh but then they'll need state school places and that will cost us more!'
Parents making sacrifices to pay for their children's education are generally parents who are very engaged, very supportive of the school and education in general. it would be very beneficial if those same parents would suddenly be motivated to improve their local state school, because their kids are going there. Instead of the private school skimming off the bright, well supported kids with motivated engaged parents, they might be at the state school, positively impacting standards. Maybe mum or dad will run as a school governor, maybe they'll start supporting more money being spent on education by government, because it's impacting them.
Private schools are not charities. If you are choosing to give up your state sch place in favour of a private one, you aren't doing us all a favour, you're making a choice. Why should we be making that choice a bit cheaper for you 🙄

I can think of a few schools in my area that used to be private schools, and converted to state schools (can’t remember whether they’re now academies or free schools) within the last 10-15 years.

Maybe Labour thinks that sort of thing will happen to the private schools that start haemorrhaging pupils when fees go up? That they’ll convert into state schools rather than close entirely?

We need to create thousands of grammar schools so that everyone has the chance to go to a good school not just the people who can afford to buy a house near a good school and those who can afford to pay private.

I agree. I went to a grammar school and it was by no means filled only with kids of well-off parents. There's also a large area of social housing in the catchment area which gives the opportunity for those kids to pass their 11 plus. That said, I appreciate it's become more competitive and tutored since I sat it.

So many people do not realise that some families prioritise education above everything else and sacrifice so much to pay school fees.

I grew up in a household where every penny was pinched. All clothes hand me down, no holidays, simple food, shabby house, never a meal out...to pay my school fees. I remember taking the sofa apart to find an extra few pence to pay my dad’s train fare to work. No way could my DP have coped with a £5,000 rise.

Saying people will suddenly send their children to state schools and flood the system is spurious and false.
All it takes to create oversubscription is more children born in one year.

I'm all for scrapping charity status on schools that are creaming in profit and creating an attitude of being superior.

Sorry but this is pie in the sky idealism. There are loads of parents who are engaged and motivated with children in the state system. It doesn’t positively impact standards because lack of parent engagement isn’t the issue with state schools

Maybe mum or dad will run as a school governor, maybe they'll start supporting more money being spent on education by government, because it's impacting them.

Yep done that. My children will still be going private from 11. The youngest may go sooner.

If they are charities they won't be 'creaming in profit' they are required to use the income for their charitable purpose.

Some independent schools are not charities and do make a profit.

The school in special measure that even people who work there advised me not to send my child to and where getting 1 or 2 6s at GCSEs is a major achievement ISNT good enough for any child, mine included.
We are just lucky enough that it wasn’t our only option

I pulled my daughter out of a state school because it wasn’t catering for her sen needs and sent her private for this reason. I think it’s fascinating so many think it’s better that private schools don’t exist and all children should go to state school - surely that will increase taxes as it will need to be funded?

Tbh I suspect we will see a lot of private schools go under in the coming years anyway. Many are actually surprisingly financially insecure, and in the last 10 years they have not-so-cleverly gone and priced themselves out of the market somewhat.

Just in the last 2 years I know of a local indy that's had to merge with another, one that has just gone bust and ceased to operate, and one that has lowered fees in a bid to attract more pupils, because numbers were dwindling.

They foolishly raised fees hugely year on year for quite a while, making themselves unaffordable to their previous bread and butter of professional working parents who stretched to pay the fees.

This, combined with a growing awareness that universities structure their offers more carefully now to ensure private school candidates aren't advantaged, means increasingly private schools are having to fill their places with international students.

Without full knowledge of how the system works and the consequences, people jump on it being good (or bad).
No they will not build new schools @lbnblbnb - schools are totally over subscribed near me (and my own child didn't get in to the nearest FOUR state schools due to this). Where would the money come from? And to pay the teachers? We keep hearing how the state school system is on its knees.
And putting up school fees may be managed in elite private schools, but not the majority, who will lose enrolment and many will go out of business. So take over the empty schools? Well, are they in an area that requires them?
Do you understand what the 'charitable status' means? That it is monitored? Sure it can sound like a contradiction, but if you take away the charitable status of schools you will also give them some tax breaks as they will be rated as businesses.
And you can't remove it from private schools in isolation. Sports Clubs, adult education and youth groups are of similar status would also have to have it revoked.
And let's not forget that universities are charities too.
The issue is complex.

If middle class parents care that much about private education they will need to have only 1 child rather than 2 or more.

So let's get rid of private health care as well. Take away the choice from people. What exactly is the difference? Serious question!