Private school fees

[studentandparent]

Labour will scrap charitable status on private school fees when next in Government. Anyone got any idea how much this will increase fees?

I said on the previous thread I think there could be some tightening up of what charitable status means. There are a number of schools in our area that do have a broader community benefit and others that do bugger all. I wouldn’t like to see the ones offering community benefit being targeted as actually that would mean lots of people would be negatively affected beyond the private school pupils.

id like to do private for secondary. With vat that might tip us into moving for 6th form so covering 5 years rather than 7. That in turn would be likely to increase demand on the local 6th forms for places as I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one thinking about that approach. If VAT tipped me out of being able to afford fees, I might not continue with my current job and either quit or go for something lower paid with lower stress reducing my tax take. There are lots of possible unintended consequences that could happen with such a policy.

Nobody is going to scrap private schools. End of.

I went to a dire state secondary school, where the local council got away with not funding our education properly. 1980s. Ofsted didn’t exist and had it done so, the school would have failed by a long mile. The bullying. The poor behaviour and physical fights. Would you have swapped your education for one, where you had been so poorly educated you struggled to study for A level and were ridiculed by the teachers for the deep chasms of missed learning? I had to educate myself and it was far too difficult back then. These days, google is my friend. I have felt inferior because of it all my life despite being relatively intelligent. Your schooling may have been difficult but quite frankly you were in an overwhelmingly privileged position.

It's hilarious to see all the faux concern for what happens to the state education sector from those who decide it wasn't good enough for their DC.
The sad, but true, reality of teaching near where I live is there are schools I would send my child to happily and schools where I would rather home educate than consider sending DC there.

It's not faux concern. My DC aren't going private, but even if it were an option I wouldn't be limiting their futures for the sake of some silly purity spiral where some people find it hard to understand that it's possible to want systemic change AND want to make the right choice for your child based on the reality of local options.

You don’t need to move for 6th form. Students can choose where they attend as catchments no longer apply.

Mummyoflittledragon I mean I’d consider a move from independent sector to state for 6th form. There’s already a lot of people that do private for years 7-11 in my area and then go to college. I suspect they would become a more popular route if fees went up 20%.

@Mummyoflittledragon our local 6th forms still have catchments. I was looking the other day as I was hoping I might be able to move my son to one of the excellent ones near by and save ourselves the money we pay on fees, but unfortunately we wouldn't get a place.

@LolaSmiles my comment wasn't directed at you. It was directed at people who are suddenly pearl clutching at what might happen to the state sector because it suits them to use that as an argument against their fees not going up when they were only too happy to take an alternative route without a second thought for the state sector. Just like the argument that they are saving the state so much money, like it is this charitable attitude that drove their decisions.The truth is that there are many parents with DC in private schools who don't give a hoot what happens to the state sector. In fact the worse it is, the more advantage to their own DC. It sounds cynical but that attitude most certainly exists.

No. But they might make it unaffordable for all bar the very very rich.

We couldn't afford a 20% rise. Especially not on top of all the other things rising.

And if we had to switch to state school I'd have to reduce my hours at work due to lack of wrap around care, so we'd pay less tax.

@Chippy1234 no way will I vote Tory just to avoid paying a 20% increase in fees. I will absolutely carry on voting Labour, even though I don't think this policy will actually benefit anyone.

@Badnewsoracle Can you really not cut back on things to afford an increase in fees?

Mizzlesticks
I see what you mean. They do have a point though, much as some of it might be faux concern.

The people paying school fees are still paying towards state schools that their children don't use. If a lot of private schools fold then those children will need educating and I'd bet it's children like mine who lose their places because catchments shrink when wealthy families buy houses close to the nice schools.
The proposed policy sounds like something that's designed to sound good but could have far reaching unintended consequences, because it won't be the super elite schools that fold.

Just like the argument that they are saving the state so much money, like it is this charitable attitude that drove their decisions.

I don't think anyone has said this was a factor in their decision-making. It was in response to a poster saying they were subsidising the VAT on fees which is frankly rather a stretch considering the cost of providing state education.

But if it ends up costing the government more than the net receipts from the VAT addition, it seems rather like political point scoring.

Exactly. I don’t think anyone feels they are being charitable, more the subsidising issue and oversubscribed state

@antelopevalley We currently have a disposable income of £2k per month. Our mortgage is looking like it will go up £1k per month, our energy costs £300 to £400 per month - we are on LPG so there is no price cap for us and the cost of LPG has more than doubled. Our disposable income will also go down as DH is self employed and his corporation tax is going to increase. Then there is everything else that is rising; food, diesel, even our house insurance has doubled for no good reason. So no, we can’t afford a 20% increase in fees. We spent lots of our savings during COVID keeping DH’s business affloat as he got no support whatsoever. He’d been made redundant in 2019 so COVID was a double whammy for us. He’d just got into a comfortable position building up his own business when it went tits up.

There are plenty more like us. Lots of parents at DC’s prep saying that they won’t be able to afford the fees for the senior school. When Labour first touted this policy in 2019
we did our calculations and we were confident that we could afford it, dipping into our savings if necessary. Then came COVID, then the cost of living crisis…

We couldn’t afford an increase in fees so we’d move DC to state school and I’d leave my nhs job as I would need to do school runs and take DC to hobbies after school. So my already short-staffed team would lose a highly experienced clinician, I would no longer be paying tax, and the state would be paying for DC’s education.

Yiu could extend your mortgage to reduce payments. It must be a very large mortgage.

No. Not 20%. We'll have to remortgage in January, and are expecting a significant rate rise which will eat up almost all (if not all) spare money. We have a cleaner but will cut that when we remortgage. We camp rather than holidaying in a static or cottage or abroad. Our car is 10 years old and is starting to cost more to run than to replace.

I'm not pleading poverty, we're much better off than a significant portion of the population, but no, we couldn't afford a 20% rise. And neither could around 50% of the families at our school- they haven't raised fees this year as they know we aren't a very affluent cohort of families.

@antelopevalley we currently owe £460,000. We live in an area where a three bed semi costs £600k. We can’t extend as it would take us past retirement age.

I work at a private school. It is the major employer in my rural area.

Not just teachers but huge admin staff, HR, groundsmen, laundry staff, cleaners, kitchen staff, security etc. Over 300 people would lose their jobs if it closed.

It also helps to keep the local shops and economy going, and provides the only leisure centre in the area. Used by all the local schools both state and private.

If it were forced to close down the government would lose significantly more financially than it would gain.

The politics of envy would cause real hardship for me and others living here.

By roarfeckingroarr 07/09/2022 14:51
Lower taxes
I'll continue to vote Tory

@Toomuchschool our kids go to a school that sounds like yours. Without it I doubt there'd be anywhere near as much music and sport. Most of the local town bands have the local Indy brass teachers on board. The Sunday rugby has the sports coaches with kids. It would change the local economy dramatically if it closed.

We are contemplating doing private 7-11 then college for sixth form like others have said. There's a lot doing it around here. To be honest we would look at a cheaper private school as our first option. There are levels of fees and ours are currently eye watering. Next level down is more sensible fews.

Lots of single children in my kids year groups. Majority also have sept - feb birthdays. Don't underestimate the planned pushiness of some parents!

Exactly this we have just had a offer accepted on a house in an outstanding school catchment for this very reason. Recent open day we went to said to budget for a minimum of 30% school is popular with overseas borders so imagine that the upper end but they already have quite low fees 😬

A 20% increase in fees won’t affect the very rich so Private schools will become even more elitist if this happens.
So the Accountants, Doctors, Lawyers, Business people may not be able to afford it but the Bankers and landowners will

That's an interesting point to consider. I'm slightly arguing against myself here as I don't support scrapping the VAT but the lawyers and accountants I know are paid pretty well.

Deloitte equity partners apparently received £1 million in partnership distributions last year, and KPMG partners £690k. My friends have worked for them for 25 years though, so plenty of accountants at the Big Four will be taking home less than that.

Many of the parents are our school are investment bankers, accountants and lawyers, with a few consultants. There's also a fair few businesses owners, particularly among the Asian parents who are impressively enterpreneurial compared to the rest of us who are little cogs in big corporate wheels.