Private school fees

[studentandparent]

Labour will scrap charitable status on private school fees when next in Government. Anyone got any idea how much this will increase fees?

Labour's dream is to get rid of private schools, but how are they going to afford to build 2,500+ new schools to replace them.

Sadly the shadow education secretary was pushing it again this morning. It’s such a bad policy but it’s easier to use this than actually invest in a way that doesn’t cause further pressure on state numbers.

Agree with all of this. I hope those championing it don't complain when it makes absolutely no difference to school funding but does increase the class sizes for their children and make catchments of decent schools even smaller. Btw I'm saying this as parent of state school kids...

Argh the quote didn't work. Anyway, agree with everyone who says it won't be the panacea you might expect

They won't. They'll just push class sizes even bigger

If parents don’t pay school fees they’ll simply pay more for houses around good schools and less well off parents will be even more priced out. It’s not going to help the state sector overall.

I think the idea is that they would use the private school facilities and gradually move from private to state- so existing pupils would stay where they are and continue paying fees but new pupils would be under the state system- same buildings, same teachers etc. There are obviously lots of legal and practical issues involved but they wouldn’t need to build thousands of new schools.

Built? With what money?

Yeah yeah, tax the rich more, totally agree - but we will still have a bloody massive budget deficit and massively under resourced public services. We need to live in the real world. This isn’t realistic and I would far rather this imaginary budget for hundreds of new schools went in the nhs, raising universal credit, or actually just into the existing state schools.

Would they be paying for them (and if so at what cost) or are we moving to live in a collectivist state where the government just seized whatever assets it chooses?

this is ridiculous.

and my kids are in state education.

They can’t nationalise private schools. Unravelling centuries old foundations would be a legal nightmare. I think you may have misunderstood.

What, so they requisition those buildings too?? Who pays the annual maintenance bill for these extra schools? Additional teaching salaries. They've clearly not done the maths, there's no way it would add up

At the risk of getting flamed, if you can afford the luxury of private education, an increase shouldn't cause too much of an issue?

Some people are struggling to put food on their table.

My kids are at an independent school. I vote Labour as do many fellow parents, possibly the majority- it’s very normal. I’d love education to be properly funded for everyone (and vote accordingly) but at the moment it isn’t.
That's how I feel.
DH and I won't be able to afford to send DC through a private education, but if we could and it was a more normal private school, as in not super expensive Eton type, then we'd consider it, especially if the local schools weren't good. I'd not sacrifice my own child's education waiting for the politicians on either side to sort out state education.

I'd like all children to have an excellent education. Sadly I know from working in schools that the system isn't working in many ways.

A 20% increase on £20k a year is £5k.

Some will find it. Others won’t. But to assume everyone who pays school fees can magic up another £5k per child is foolish.

Mine are, with tiny catchments consisting of houses worth £1m+. Nothing new has been built for years, they just ship the kids to towns further and further away.

You're right, that's probably not their intention, but that is certainly the side effect for everyone else.

There was a massive thread on this a few weeks ago:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4644193-its-daft-to-think-parents-with-kids-in-private-school-have-money-to-burn?page=1

One key point was that people conflate the issue of adding VAT and removing charitable status. They are different and come with different challenges/implications.

Nah, there are loads of champagne socialists round my way. Voting Labour is the only way they can pretend they aren't exactly the same as their privileged Tory mates!

Wealthy families will be able to afford the 20% increase and will continue to have all the benefits of private education, including disproportionate levels of influence and power as adults. Some middle class families will have to pull their children out of private school and this will out more pressure on the state sector. The additional 20 % vat may or may not be enough to compensate for the extra strain on state schools. I can’t see how this policy will help anyone and it seems to me to be based on sending a message rather than making a difference.

I haven’t misunderstood- it’s a proposal that’s been discussed by parts of the far left not Labour Party policy. Obviously there are legal issues with it, as I point out in my post. And I’m not advocating for it- my own children are privately educated.

My point is in response to PP saying that Labour want to get rid of private schools so would need to build thousands more. People on the left who want to get rid of private schools don’t argue that they’ll build thousands more, but that they’ll use the existing facilities. Luckily that part of the left is no longer in control of the Labour Party.

'They can’t nationalise private schools. Unravelling centuries old foundations would be a legal nightmare. I think you may have misunderstood.'

This. Some charitable trusts have existed for centuries. Legally these are complex structures that can't just be wound down.

And imagine the legal action. It would tie the DfEd up in law suits for decades. Labour would have to be in power for decades to see the policy through, and the best they have ever managed is 13 years.

I'll not lose any sleep over it.

It's hilarious to see all the faux concern for what happens to the state education sector from those who decide it wasn't good enough for their DC.

The funny thing is, if they rejoined the EU, they wouldn't be allowed to impose VAT on fees, because Education is VAT free.

That creates a bit of a quandary for them. 😊

It’s not faux. I use state and it’s already hard to access. I don’t need this area to be harder.

Im sure people thought that Brexit would be legally impossible. If there is political will of course it could be done.

But removing charitable status isn’t the same thing as abolishing private schools. There is no possible justification for calling them charities.

Im sure people thought that Brexit would be legally impossible. If there is political will of course it could be done

brexit has proved to be legally pretty impossible if you look at the absolute clusterfuck that’s been created regarding Northern Ireland. Saying that if there’s a will there’s a way is not true, and causes damage when people don’t think through the practical implications of a policy just because they like the sound of it.